Info > Feedback and Suggestions
Medium Weapons, Anyone?
Van Manfred:
--- Quote from: The Djinn on October 23, 2013, 04:32:54 pm ---
Shots miss occasionally, yes. But 80% accuracy is pretty easy on a Heavy Flak within, say, Gatling range. The more important issue is that medium guns take time to fire off a full clip...and a skilled pilot won't just sit and let you empty an entire clip on his ship if he has any recourse. So we can either assume that each gun is functioning under optimal conditions, or that neither is functioning under optimal conditions, in which case you might only get 50-75% of that light gun's clip actually on target (or actually on the portion of the ship you wish to damage).
In my experience though? Good gunners are reliable at putting heavy gun fire on-target. 80% isn't that far off the mark at moderate range.
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A heavy flak at gatling range won't always arm. Maybe, if you've got greased or heatsinks. And, most gunners I know have less than 80% accuracy, meaning some lost shots here and there. A Hwacha is especially un-precise, even with the heavy clip and at short range, there always will be some rockets off the map - furthermore when mounted on a Galleon.
--- Quote ---Yep. And by firing early, aiming for engines, and reversing, you can keep that distance up for quite some time, even on very tight maps like Paritan Rumble.
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Why do always assume a dumb opposition? Let's make the crews equals for comparison's sake. In most normal battles, Galleon or Spires only got a few shots a long range, shots that the other ship has a good chance to dodge or soak by the time you reload. When you finished reloading, most opponent will already have chosen their range.
--- Quote ---So while you scalpel away I'll tear into your guns and engines with Heavy Clip on a Hwacha at a range you can't match with damn good accuracy, then disable all your components facing me with Burst at close range.
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You do that again. If your gun is castrated by my shatter shots, you can't do what you wrote.
The odds are, the gatling will disable the Hwacha first, except at long range, when it's superfluous, since the gat hasn't the reach, it can't fire anyway. When it can, the fact that it acts as a tracer, has a large clip, reloads in less than 3rd the time the Hwacha does and also has a superior firing angle, makes that it trumps the Hwachas in a disarm duel.
--- Quote ---Also, that Gat tactic is alarmingly ineffective, as even with Charged rounds the Gatling has the second worst DPS against the hull in the game. By a pretty huge margin. Use it to shred armor, reload it, and shred their armor again once it's back up. It's a far more effective use of the Gat then the pitiful 13 DPS that Charged rounds do to the perma-Hull.
--- End quote ---
Except for the Medium-slot ships and the Squid, all the other ships have at least two overlapping light guns, like I said in my post. I never said that gats alone can do it all - but the fact that they put off the hull make that ship damn fragile to about any other light gun that may overlap it.
--- Quote ---The fact that within a 2-3 second window you can strip a ship of most of its guns + engines is well worth the 14 second reload time. Hwachas sow chaos and give you time to get more advantageous positions...and they do it VERY quickly. You then swing guns to bring other weapons into arc while it reloads. You're severely underestimating the power of the weapon as mid-close range disabler: nothing else really compares at that range.
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Like I've wrote, the Hwacha's reload time is long enough that I can repair any weapon that it may have damaged during its course, even from scratch. If the engineer's at the hull, and on the balloon, you just won't kill that ship with a single hwacha. It's impossible, unless your target isn't crewed.
--- Quote ---Beg pardon?
Hwacha DPS to components: 232 + burst to nearby components.
Gatling DPS to components: 77
The Hwacha is the clear winner here.
--- End quote ---
:D
Nah, sorry, I contest that. Either your numbers are wrong, or you assume that every missile you fire with the Hwacha will hit the same component at the same time. Won't happen.
--- Quote ---I would hazard a guess you are not up against decent pilots/gunners then, and they probably aren't running Heavy Clip. A well run Hwacha ship can disable your engines or guns from almost double the Gatling's maximum range, and easily have Burst rounds loaded by the time you close the distance, which gives you a firing window of a few seconds before you lose half of your ship's components.
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The Hwacha's loading time is long enough for all that damage to be gone, even with an average crew, when it's time to fire it again. And if the Hwacha's got better range, the Gat has more firing angle. And all the other advantages, except as what the Hwacha really is; Enforcing an area of denial.
The Djinn:
--- Quote from: Sprayer on October 23, 2013, 05:07:48 pm ---It's 100 damage per shot to guns and engines (50 base, mod is 2) Djinn, 600 if all shots of the clip hit.
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Derp. You're entirely correct. I had an error in that box of my table. Thanks.
--- Quote ---Nah, sorry, I contest that. Either your numbers are wrong, or you assume that every missile you fire with the Hwacha will hit the same component at the same time. Won't happen.
--- End quote ---
You were correct: I editted my post. The correct number is 118.
Van Manfred:
--- Quote from: Alistair MacBain on October 23, 2013, 05:11:13 pm ---Well i dont think you have seen any competetive match at all. And no it is not about achievment farming. It is about experience and actual skill.
Youre only 4 4 3. So shouldnt be to long i think that u left novice matches. And a pub will never utilize longrange to its fullest.
Pub games are totally different from actual highlvl / competetive games. The thing why ppl barely use med weapons besides the hcarro are their relative high skillminimum to utilize.
Watch some paddling or gents matches and then see what good gunners can do with a medium weapon.
The reason u barely see this in normal games is the fact that not many pubs can time their shot.
Pub is mainly brawl based game. Seen any sniper galleon pilot rly park his galleon getting assisted by his ally? Probably not.
And another part is. We probably have played the game way longer than you. We might know what a gun can rly do and we might also see it doing it in several more situations.
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I have the game since it is out, and I got "Guns of Icarus" (whitout the "online") before that. I hate achievement farmers because they are often tyrannical, egoistical or just positively nefarious to a good game. I played enough to see that many of these "achievers" are in fact hardly competent folks who just happen to jump in with the right crew. And if you have any experience you'll know it too.
There is no achievement farmer here that I will recognized as more "experienced" than me, unless he gives me flight hours, and many of these numbers that you cannot see on other's profile, and I'll tell you if you are either experienced or an achievement farmer, no offense. It's useless to try and impress me with achievements. Maybe when I started up the game, but not now.
I have played what you described as a "high-level" game, and got tired real quick of being taken for a noob because I don't chase acheivements (they really come naturally in my case). When they do take me on their ship, they often end up adding me to their Friend bank, when I'm not ending up directing the crew over the mike. But even in these game I have never seen as much casual "one-shots" as I saw on these board. The playing level must be much more higher on forums, I gather...
@The Djinn; If I was correct, you are, in return, quite elegant in admitting it. Thank you, sir.
@Sprayer; Yes, looks like I was wrong; The Field Gun has no arming time.
The Djinn:
--- Quote from: Van Manfred on October 23, 2013, 05:37:57 pm ---I have the game since it is out, and I got "Guns of Icarus" (whitout the "online") before that. I hate achievement farmers because they are often tyrannical, egoistical or just positively nefarious to a good game. I played enough to see that many of these "achievers" are in fact hardly competent folks who just happen to jump in with the right crew. And if you have any experience you'll know it too.
There is no achievement farmer here that I will recognized as more "experienced" than me, unless he gives me flight hours, and many of these numbers that you cannot see on other's profile, and I'll tell you if you are either experienced or an achievement farmer, no offense. It's useless to try and impress me with achievements. Maybe when I started up the game, but not now.
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That's a rather blanket generalization though. I've been known to have my crew take something sub-optimal if they're up for it because I've wanted some silly achievement (like "harpoon 30 ships"), but that doesn't mean I'm bad for the game or that I'm a bad captain: point of fact, we won one of those harpoon matches because I could out-pilot the enemy captains such that our Harpoon/Flamer Mobula was always out of their gun arcs.
TL:DR -- Going for the occasional achievement or even flying a loadout specifically for an achievement doesn't mean you're inexperienced or bad. Being bad and/or inexperienced is the only real indicator of being bad or inexperienced. :P
--- Quote ---I have played what you described as a "high-level" game, and got tired real quick of being taken for a noob because I don't chase acheivements (they really come naturally in my case). When they do take me on their ship, they often end up adding me to their Friend bank, when I'm not ending up directing the crew over the mike. But even in these game I have never seen as much casual "one-shots" as I saw on these board. The playing level must be much more higher on forums, I gather...
--- End quote ---
Ramming, Lochnager Flak, Buffed + Charged Flak, and enough rapid Greased Mortars can effectively 1-shot (defined as, say, 5 seconds or less) an enemy ship. I personally have seen this happen numerous times, and done it myself numerous times. Your mileage may, of course, vary.
--- Quote from: Van Manfred on October 23, 2013, 05:37:57 pm ---@The Djinn; If I was correct, you are, in return, quite elegant in admitting it. Thank you, sir.
--- End quote ---
Any time, my good man. I like to think that while we all badger each other, the GoI community is a decent one. Gentlemen argue with each other all the time, but that doesn't mean we have to act like savages while we're at it. :)
Captain Smollett:
This is too much theory crafting.
I recommend you watch the paddling (or gents) in action. There was an absolutely gorgeous one shot kill in the gents vs paddling cogs season 2 finale which unfortunately is no longer on twitch (not sure if there's another copy of it somewhere). Recent anvalan conflicts recorded here http://www.youtube.com/user/CommunityeSports also demonstrate well the power of heavy weaponry.
1190 hours of time in GOI over 4275 matches btw
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