The Spire.

[Echoez]

So aside from all the carronade crazyness on this forum, I'd like to bring this ship to public attention since it hasn't been discussed after the new patch.

This is not necessarily a 'Spire is broken' thread, even if in my honest opinion I still think it is.

I'm just trying to understand what is the point of it, I mean, I freaking love the looks of it, probably the sole reason I even play the darn thing, but what else about it?

- It's got a massive balloon target
- The hull is also a massive target, big vertical profile means arc'ed guns will have a much easier time landing shots
- Armor is still below average
- I honestly don't feel that 100 extra permahull was a decent 'buff', all it means is that it takes one more Mortar shot to finish you (from the 16 they have, hurr)
- It's still horribly slow which disallows it to easily manuver out of danger's way
- Rams still pretty much one-shot it
- Can't brawl cause it's too weak, can't snipe cause it's so easily outsniped due to its fragile nature, also can't starfe
- 4 decks, components are very spread out

When I look at the Spire, all I see is a beautiful ship riddled with weaknesses and very few saving graces.

All in all, the Spire is an even bigger Goldfish, that trades everything good about the Goldfish (faster armor rebuild, massive permahull health pool, agility and speed, etc etc) except the front gun for a little boost to firepower on the front and slightly faster turn acceleration.

My question is, is it realy worth it outside of the fun factor of just running the ship because I like how it looks?

[Spud Nick]

-The hell hound spire with a mortar and banshee on top can be a good counter to a blender fish or squid.
-The sniper spire with a mine on top can be a good counter for any ship that charges at you, assuming you have enough room to back up.

It's a very hard ship to fly in any sort of competitive match. Probably the hardest ship to fly.

[Echoez]

-The hell hound spire with a mortar and banshee on top can be a good counter to a blender fish or squid.
-The sniper spire with a mine on top can be a good counter for any ship that charges at you, assuming you have enough room to back up.

It's a very hard ship to fly in any sort of competitive match. Probably the hardest ship to fly.

For the first build, it's a loadout with a very high alpha anyway, but I understand, have tested myself as well, but it's horrible on open maps due to your speed, hence below average in most situations

Second one, well, what makes the Spire a better sniper than a Galleon? Why would I want to bring a Spire instead of a Galleon, that has more firepower and way better durability? Galleon can also starfe which makes its guns harder targets from long range, if need be, the Galleon can seek out cover while keeping guns on enemies, Spire can not, it needs to make a turn for it so in a sniper fight, it's still at a disadvantage, even if it's just a single Mercury pointing at it.

Note that I do not consider "choosing engage distance" a legit argument at this point cause you do so at such a slow pace it doesn't matter anyway, anything can reach you, even Junkers, but you are still too slow to chase anything.

Also, I know it's a very hard ship to fly (picked it very early when I started playing GoI) but nothing justifies that difficulty on the ship so far in my opinion.

I don't see what's so rewarding about playing the Spire, you would expect a ship with so many short comings to have some amazing reward, but seriously I don't feel anything else other than "Oh well I beat you in the hard mode ship" because I could have gone something else and it would have been tons easier and much more rewarding, gameplay experience wise, at least for my crew and that poor main engi that has to be locked in the back of the ship the moment we start taking damage.

[Spud Nick]

The sniper spire can maintain range better than a galleon and can get arcs onto the target faster. Other than that it has nothing going for it.

[treseritops]

I think the things that separate the Spire and that are helping/hurting it are that it is the medium gun glass cannon (as opposed to the light gun mobula), and it is the forward facing long range (as opposed to the side facing galleon). It also turns quickly (swiveling) as opposed to the galleon.

The spire is just a fairly specific tool. I think it's great for long range where if you need to back up or get out you can without having to lose arc. Less guns than galleon for better *choice* of maneuverability. Not necessarily better, but at least gives you the choice.

It can be great for fighting a squid because it can turn easily if a squid pulls a fly-by.

I think the spire with the flak buff is getting there. Honestly I believe some douche talented captain will "figure out" the spire and start destroying us similar to how the squid has suddenly come into its own. They'll need a teammate probably but they'll be dangerous nonetheless.

[Captain Smollett]

Well, I've gone as far to travel to Muse studios to pitch this to them but the greatest advantage the Spire has is the alpha strike damage potential.  My problem with it has always been the very tight trifecta arc making it difficult for the pilot to run over and finish ships with armor down or the delay from an engineer moving from hull to gun taking the extra time to swing the gun..

I've often mused that a more forward facing right gun (not so forward that you could double merc) would make for an overall higher dps from GOI's glass cannon since the gun would have to spend less time being turned forward when mounted and would be in arc more often.

The Spire certainly isn't in jeopardy of being op and though it may not make it the best ship in GOI at the very least I think it'd make the ship even more fun to fly.

[Spud Nick]

This glass Cannon needs more cannon.

[Crafeksterty]

Being a very intense spire flyer, bringing it to almost every tourney... Trying to make the spire as good as any ship with skill... like i said in an interview it is So... So difficult.

And i agree with this post. The hull is big, baloon is big, it is slow, the weapon placement allow for alot of different builds but because of the spread out i clearly see it is not made to be fun with loadout building.

Incredibly annoying at times to repair and or cordinate in for weapons or repairs.

This ships stats are litteraly below average, and how it fares is bellow the average unless youve got mindgames played in.


I once tought (before the mobula) that the spire was about killing before dying, but that was not the case, the mobula does that better. The only reason the spire is good is the heavy weapon. Having the heavy weapon on front is the only saving grace balance wise for the spire. If that gun was arced, put somewhere else or was another light weapon, it would have a much harder time.

Thanks for making this post for me, i wanted to do so one myself but daeum, im afraid of flamers or wording it out badly.

[Gambrill]

This glass Cannon needs more cannon.

or at least double glazing :/ I play spire as a long range disable-kill. and i've taken down quite a few different type of ships. from blenderfish to ramidions.

It's a really hard ship to master. And i have in now way mastered it yet

Echoez im quoting what you've put to help me put my two cents in

1. It's got a massive balloon target
2. The hull is also a massive target, big vertical profile means arc'ed guns will have a much easier time landing shots
3. Armor is still below average
4. I honestly don't feel that 100 extra permahull was a decent 'buff', all it means is that it takes one more Mortar shot to finish you (from the 16 they have, hurr)
5. It's still horribly slow which disallows it to easily manuver out of danger's way
6. Rams still pretty much one-shot it
7. Can't brawl cause it's too weak, can't snipe cause it's so easily outsniped due to its fragile nature, also can't starfe
8. 4 decks, components are very spread out

.

1. Even though its balloon is massive im sure its Balloon has more HP than the others? not sure if im correct if someone could verify i would love you (stuck at work so can't view ANYTHING :/ )

2. Yeah its hull is very tall but it IS slender. high arc's may have an easy shot if its front facing, but if it were flying a different direction to your gun, left or right, not directly at you, theres a good chance it'll miss.

3. Completely agree with you that its flimsy and the rebuild timer is quite worrying too xD

4. Yeah once the armours down 9/10 times you can get ready to see little bits of your ship falling all over the place.

5. With the spire i see it more of a weapons platform, (like how the galleon decides where the fight is by waiting for them to come to it, The spire waits for enemies to come into its view.

6. I noticed this too, All i can do to counter it is to fly backwards (and gain height) with kerosene and time well with bumpersor if i get high enough flip to full forward and RUUUUUUNN!!!!!

7. Might be fragile but its a glass cannon, getting your shots of first (or at least more accurately breaking their snipes) is key. Hopefully you have an eagle eyed sniper

8. GOOD GODS EVERYTHING is spread out :/ if something breaks i can safely assume that while its being rebuilt something else will break due to the distances that the engie needs to run xD


To me it feels as though every ship has one particularly good stat.. such as speed or durability, In my eyes the spire has nothing OUTSTANDING to flaunt around.

[Crafeksterty]

or at least double glazing :/ I play spire as a long range disable-kill. and i've taken down quite a few different type of ships. from blenderfish to ramidions.

It's a really hard ship to master. And i have in now way mastered it yet

Echoez im quoting what you've put to help me put my two cents in


1. Even though its balloon is massive im sure its Balloon has more HP than the others? not sure if im correct if someone could verify i would love you (stuck at work so can't view ANYTHING :/ )

2. Yeah its hull is very tall but it IS slender. high arc's may have an easy shot if its front facing, but if it were flying a different direction to your gun, left or right, not directly at you, theres a good chance it'll miss.

3. Completely agree with you that its flimsy and the rebuild timer is quite worrying too xD

4. Yeah once the armours down 9/10 times you can get ready to see little bits of your ship falling all over the place.

5. With the spire i see it more of a weapons platform, (like how the galleon decides where the fight is by waiting for them to come to it, The spire waits for enemies to come into its view.

6. I noticed this too, All i can do to counter it is to fly backwards (and gain height) with kerosene and time well with bumpersor if i get high enough flip to full forward and RUUUUUUNN!!!!!

7. Might be fragile but its a glass cannon, getting your shots of first (or at least more accurately breaking their snipes) is key. Hopefully you have an eagle eyed sniper

8. GOOD GODS EVERYTHING is spread out :/ if something breaks i can safely assume that while its being rebuilt something else will break due to the distances that the engie needs to run xD


To me it feels as though every ship has one particularly good stat.. such as speed or durability, In my eyes the spire has nothing OUTSTANDING to flaunt around.

1. nope, and if it had more health it would be a downgrade rather than an upgrade because of how it is allready difficult repairing baloons.

2. It is slender but MASSIVE. Big as galleon almost. Like said, you cant exactly dodge it, and if it where to be shot at sideways its engines would be taken out.

5. It has 2 guns facing forward, 3rd is facing a little forward but more to the side while the 4th is almost useless, compare that to the pyra that has 2 guns facing forward and a ram, galleon; 3 guns facing the left side. The spire is not a weapons platform, the mobula is.

6. When you start running they will catch up to you again, this is where the spire should have advantage, but not so much.

7. No, it is called a glass cannon because it is glassy, the galleon is more cannon and not glassy than the spire. The spire still does not hold its own profile of being glass cannon.


Try and fly the spire versus good players, the thought of glass cannon will not apply. It is too difficult to manage and every ship can have their way with the spire someway or another.
Flying the spire you really need heavy mindgames. The only real strength is the spires ability to go up and down, but guess how it is formed. Vertical. It is quick at going up or down but it is long as hell making it dangerouse to crash down but also near miss almost every ramming ship or arcing shots as your dodging up or down.

And how it is slender does not make up for it because it is slow.

In my oppinion the spire needs quick as hell acceleration. That would be something.
I mean think about it, something slender like the spire can place itself in many good positions, ive done so myself. But it is difficult if the ship wont give feedback to your speed.

If spire has double its acceleration or something, along with kyrosine/moonshine, mindgames will be much more saturated and easier to perform as the spire. Well thats my 2 cents.

[geggis]

As a Spire fan too, I can vouch for a lot of the feelings here. The buff made a slight difference to survivability but it's still sorely lacking as a sensible option. The possible trifecta is limited to a handful of gun combinations and even then is difficult to achieve and maintain. The lack of speed or responsiveness is a big issue when you consider the size of your balloon and hull, the HP of your hull, and the spread of components across the ship for engineers to fix up. Vertical movement is highly restrictive as well, as Crafeksterty says above, thanks to the height of the ship so you can't escape rams or carronades easily.

One of the things I love about the Spire that isn't usually possible on many of the other ships apart from the Galleon and perhaps the Mobula, is that it's a good ship for pilots who want to help gun. I'll usually bring the Spire to a halt and jump on the starboard or bow gun, fixing up the balloon and tweaking the angle of the ship occasionally. I'd personally like to see any tweaks play to that strength because the space on the top deck is hard to fully man with so many important components on the lower decks that are likely to need fixing.

The Mobula has happily filled the space that I wanted the Spire to fill though, but I'd dearly love to be able to fly it with confidence. What about sticking the lower port gun at a 45 degree angle too similar to the upper starboard gun? That should open up a trifecta on either side of the ship and make that gun slot more useful. I'd happily see some acceleration and HP buffs too.

[Gambrill]

Try and fly the spire versus good players, the thought of glass cannon will not apply. It is too difficult to manage and every ship can have their way with the spire someway or another.
Flying the spire you really need heavy mindgames. The only real strength is the spires ability to go up and down, but guess how it is formed. Vertical. It is quick at going up or down but it is long as hell making it dangerouse to crash down but also near miss almost every ramming ship or arcing shots as your dodging up or down.

And how it is slender does not make up for it because it is slow.

In my oppinion the spire needs quick as hell acceleration. That would be something.
I mean think about it, something slender like the spire can place itself in many good positions, ive done so myself. But it is difficult if the ship wont give feedback to your speed.

If spire has double its acceleration or something, along with kyrosine/moonshine, mindgames will be much more saturated and easier to perform as the spire. Well thats my 2 cents.

First of all mate, I do fly the spire against good players.

I do use it as a weapons platform and do win. The way i have MY spire 3 guns are able to face forward. I can easily cripple ramming pyras and have had them ram me and survive while they crumble. However i've faced the other end of the sword and been totally destroyed. I've learned from mistakes and believe that what i have is a solid plan for the spire.

The idea of backing away is to still shoot them fella. Not just run away like a hound with its tail between its legs.

'2. It is slender but MASSIVE. Big as galleon almost. Like said, you cant exactly dodge it, and if it where to be shot at sideways its engines would be taken out.' Yes if they had shatter weapons or enough firepower to destroy them, better a turning engine than your gun.

I believe the spire shouldn't be fast. The reason i think its a weapons platform is because of its great turning speed and ability for a forward facing trifecta with a heavy gun included.

[Gambrill]

Geggis a HP buff would be lovely but not so sure about a BIG speed boost, I mean look at the bloody thing, it doesn't look like it should go fast xD

[geggis]

Yeah I'm meaning more acceleration rather than speed so it feels really responsive moving and turning rather than outright fast. I was just thinking some more after posting: the Spire is a sentinel ship so it should be able to stand its ground once it's dug in. Its name, appearance and composition make it the perfect ship for parking up, watching and waiting for the enemy. In this regard I think it could do with being tankier so it's more formidable if allowed to get into a good position. It's going to be inherently more vulnerable as a stationary target (that's also huge!) so the added HP would only help solidfy its role in my opinion, without unbalancing it.

[Gambrill]

Totally Agree with you there. It would make it the beast of King of the hill. I've noticed while playing AGAINST spires that they can hold down an open area quite well. It's only when they get closed on quickly or ambushed where the suddenly falter.