The Spire.

[Echoez]

What about sticking the lower port gun at a 45 degree angle too similar to the upper starboard gun? That should open up a trifecta on either side of the ship and make that gun slot more useful. I'd happily see some acceleration and HP buffs too.

Wait can we talk about this more?  This is actually kind of brilliant.  If the bottom left gun got arced forward and the top right gun got arced farther forward the Spire instantly gets more cannon for its glass.  In an alpha strike the hull engi takes left gun and the pilot takes right gun making a quadfecta. 

Furthermore it would finally give the hull engineer something fun to do without getting too far away from the hull.

This would make the Spire truly a glass cannon, fragile, but very threatening if left alone.

Oh I must have overread this... sounds like a really promising approach. With such a buff the spire could be turned into a truly powerful glas cannon indeed.

Umm, just to make sure I get it right, is this what you guys are talking about?


(dem art skillz tho)

If that's it, well, that's pretty awkward for the Heavy gun... considering how narrow their horizontal arc usually is.. but dunno.

EDIT: okay my bad, I kinda missread that, so top Left gun stays the same, top Right gun gets turned even more forward and lower Left gun also gets turned further forward?

That's a lot of guns pointing forward, I thought just turning the top gun all the way to the front would be enough, though that could be interesting. Not sure how I feel about the lower gun being angled to the front, usually that's a flare gun spot, wouldn't it be more convenient for it to have some backwards arc as well?

[Captain Smollett]

A phoenix claw Spire turns fast enough that the pilot should be able to overcome any adversity caused by the guns only pointing in one direction.

[Echoez]

A phoenix claw Spire turns fast enough that the pilot should be able to overcome any adversity caused by the guns only pointing in one direction.

I guess you're right, right now that spot is mostly reserved for Flares due to lack of options, with the angle it could very well be something else as well as keep be a viable flare spot.

[Spud Nick]

I like the idea of moving the guns on the top and the bottom forward a bit.

[Echoez]

Alright after thinking about it and without wanting to make everything terribly easy:

1. Turn the top right (starboard) gun about 15-20 degrees more towards the front.
2. Turn the middle deck left (port) gun 45 degrees towards the front.

That sound alright?

[Gambrill]

Echoez while turning the top right gun to the front may sounds that it'll make it fair but imagine this...

Two mercs + Typhoon. Mercs take out the armour and then a well timed lochnagar /two charged Flak shots... It'd put the spire so high up in peoples esteem that it'd be used as the new Meta xD


It's like a pyra with two light guns facing forward but instead of the ram ability it gets a heavy gun

[geggis]

My initial idea was to just angle the lower port gun at 45 degrees, keep the front gun facing forwards and keep the upper starboard gun at its current angle. I kind of like the spread this arrangement gives (which fits with the idea of it being a sentinel ship) and it also opens up a few more options (and that lower port gun has been a bugbear for me since the Spire launched). Having said this, I do echo what Echoez said that two awkward trifectas might not be enough to put the 'cannon' in 'glass cannon'. I think angling the starboard gun forwards would be formidable but I like the symmetry of keeping two 45 degree angle guns on either side and the arcs they provide. The best bet for me would be to have the port and starboard guns share the same angles facing outwards so 45/45 or 35/35 (or tweaked perhaps so they're not absolutely symmetrical seeing as their relative positions are different on each side ie. the port gun is close to the hull, the starboard gun is far out). I think Muse would have to experiment with the angles to establish a sweet spot -- although dual mercs sound delicious to me! :-D -- but this tweak could transform the ship without having to make any sweeping changes. I'd still welcome some more acceleration, and having the Spire go backwards as fast as it can go forwards sounds interesting. It's the only ship I can imagine that making sense on really.

[geggis]

^ Basically what Echoez said.

It would be nice to make Pyra pilots think twice before facing down a Spire.

[Gambrill]

My initial idea was to just angle the lower port gun at 45 degrees, keep the front gun facing forwards and keep the upper starboard gun at its current angle. I kind of like the spread this arrangement gives (which fits with the idea of it being a sentinel ship) and it also opens up a few more options (and that lower port gun has been a bugbear for me since the Spire launched). Having said this, I do echo what Echoez said that two awkward trifectas might not be enough to put the 'cannon' in 'glass cannon'. I think angling the starboard gun forwards would be formidable but I like the symmetry of keeping two 45 degree angle guns on either side and the arcs they provide. The best bet for me would be to have the port and starboard guns share the same angles facing outwards so 45/45 or 35/35 (or tweaked perhaps so they're not absolutely symmetrical seeing as their relative positions are different on each side ie. the port gun is close to the hull, the starboard gun is far out). I think Muse would have to experiment with the angles to establish a sweet spot -- although dual mercs sound delicious to me! :-D -- but this tweak could transform the ship without having to make any sweeping changes. I'd still welcome some more acceleration, and having the Spire go backwards as fast as it can go forwards sounds interesting. It's the only ship I can imagine that making sense on really.

If the port matched the starboard, I could have every gun firing the artemis can reach forward, It'd make a dual artemis (sides) merc and hwacha a massive troll ship. Everything has shatter on it, Plus piercing and explosives xD

[geggis]

Yeah that's why the angles would need to be tweaked carefully! I'd be happy to see how the Spire fared with easier trifectas on either side of the ship before venturing into the dark waters of four way fire (with a medium gun)! That could get nasty.

[Gambrill]

Nasty would be an understatement. But then again since its so fragile that definatly would earn it the name of glass cannon ...Or just have 4 fully forward facing guns. Y'know for those  i dont give a damn what ship you're on. YOU GONNA DIEEEEEEE

[Sprayer]

Alright after thinking about it and without wanting to make everything terribly easy:

1. Turn the top right (starboard) gun about 15-20 degrees more towards the front.
2. Turn the middle deck left (port) gun 45 degrees towards the front.

That sound alright?

Echoez while turning the top right gun to the front may sounds that it'll make it fair but imagine this...

Two mercs + Typhoon. Mercs take out the armour and then a well timed lochnagar /two charged Flak shots... It'd put the spire so high up in peoples esteem that it'd be used as the new Meta xD


It's like a pyra with two light guns facing forward but instead of the ram ability it gets a heavy gun

Top right, isn't that gun already at 45° off of straight forward? Turning it 20° further would allow dual Merc with 5° overlapping arc as Gambrill said. Turning it just 15° more forward would make the Merc arcs not touch anymore, which would allow the pilot to turn so that one merc can shoot while the other reloads. Pretty please with sugar on top Muse, give me the double merc typhoon meta.

[Crafeksterty]

Having the lower left gun pointing forward is probably the best solution that still requier skill to use.

Dont suggest the upper right gun to be even more forward then, because you allready have good options on your disposal.


If the lower left gun is pointing in same degrees as the upper right, we may potentialy have the spire to be closer to a weapons platform.

Because that the upper right gun isnt exactly facing forward, you are left with few weapons of choice, the lower left as it stands now leave you with VERY little choice.
If we have another slot that leaves us with few rather than VERY little, we will see more options and uses of weapons in combination and etc.


If the lower left gets a buff like that, putting an artemis gun on the lower left and the upper right will bifecta, ultimately Quadfectaing.
For me, then i plan on putting the minelauncher down stairs and the artemis upstairs with the merc. etc etc.

But i fear this may make the spire a wee bit too powerfull. Maybe... i want to test it out.

DO NOT change the upper right, if we get an almost bifecta or bifecta merc, it could ruin alot of things and make the spire a new sniper meta.
The lower right will or may have  more synergy with eachother if the lower right is changed, because it is closer, heck it is right below it almost. While the upper right looses some of its bifecta power with its upper right because it is splitt off from it.

Example:

Note: this is not the spires degrees, it is just an example similar to the spires weapons.

I would still put the lower left gun to have 45 degree front, just know that then the lower left is in more synergy to the upper left than the upper right should be in synergy to the upper left.

Even if this is something to put in mind, i still think it is a viable buff because of how the gun on the right is usually used by the captain, or it depends.

[Echoez]

Echoez while turning the top right gun to the front may sounds that it'll make it fair but imagine this...

Two mercs + Typhoon. Mercs take out the armour and then a well timed lochnagar /two charged Flak shots... It'd put the spire so high up in peoples esteem that it'd be used as the new Meta xD


It's like a pyra with two light guns facing forward but instead of the ram ability it gets a heavy gun

You, like most people in this community, seem to over estimate the current 2Merc, the weapon is very hard to hit with now after the projectile speed nerf (it arcs like crazy too) and a 5 degree overlap is VERY easily broken, plus it can't aim down anymore unless very long range, which means the pilot wouldn't be able to use these guns, effectively requiring a second engineer to be up there, which has obvious downsides that I don't feel like explaining. It has its risks and pays off.

With the current arc the Top Right gun has, I can't even put a light Flak there and get a trifecta without the need to turn my ship and if I need to turn my ship to get a Trifecta with ANYTHING that isn't an Artemis/Banshee, then I don't have CHOICES. This is why I want to turn it 20 degrees, so you have all choices, but the most obvious one isn't nearly as easy as you guys make it be. It would finally give the Spire a proper weapon selection for that slot.


By turning the lower Left gun an other 45 degrees forward just gives you one more spot to put Artemis/Banshee on, or possibly mines, but that's all, nothing else overlaps properly. If this ship can't get an easy trifecta with anything but a mercury gun ( still can, but harder to maintain) then I don't see the point of even angling the weapons at all, just let them as they are.

People SHOULD be afraid of the Spire since it's a 'Glass Cannon' and I'm sorry, but the only way to achieve that is to give it the easy arcs, I am not afraid of a ship that is slow, weak and fragile and only points 2 guns to my direction most of the time and if there is a third it's probably an Artemis that I can mostly ignore cause it takes SO long to even turn that thing.

Unless that thing has a comparable firepower to a Galleon then it's not worth anyone's time outside of just playing the 'hardmode' ship. It simply isn't a Glass cannon if its firepower is surpassed so easily by almost anything else.

In my honest opinion of course.


PS: Let's not forget that no matter how much firepower, the tremendous downsides of this ship SHOULD balance it out as it's very weak, slow, a massive target and is STILL very vulnerable to counter-battery fire, you can't stand on your ground (air) with the Spire as easily as you can with a Galleon and just take the hits, remember that.

[geggis]

I'd like the Spire to be able to put the fear in anyone caught in its sights. When you see one staring you down it should be an 'Are we organised enough to engage this thing head on?' type of situation. Much like finding yourself on the port side of a Galleon. At present it feels like they're kill-bait at worst, and a potentially problematic soft target at best.