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The Spire.
Gambrill:
--- Quote from: omniraptor on October 09, 2013, 11:43:13 pm ---My problem with the spire is that it can't actually use all its strong sides well in combat.
Things the spire is good at:
* Turning
* Vertical movement
* Sniping/concentrated fire. It's pretty easy to set up and maintain a light-light-medium gun trifecta because of good turning speed and slim horizontal profile (unlikely to crash into anything).Now, here is what it's actually bad at:
* Brawling and horizontal dodging because it's so slow and squishy and can't maneuver while firing.
* Vertical dodging because it has a HUGE vertical profile.
* Sniping because it can't strafe or backpedal quickly, so it's really easy for an enemy to take out its guns.All of that being said, I think it's already a good mid-range killer, because pretty much anyything disintegrates under sustained fire from two magma cannons and a heavy flak. The problem is that outside of that annulus, the magma cannons' projectile drop becomes unworkable, and inside it the bullets/shells don't arm for full damage. This can be compensated by taking either greased or lesmok, but those tools only shift the already narrow effective range, not widen it. As long as the spire has a (possibly disabler) buddy that can stop enemies from ramming it, the spire can kick ass, but I agree that it's helpless when alone. Too bad good (disabler) buddies are so rare..
--- End quote ---
Merc front art starboard? Merc has the shatter + pierce and artemis also with the shatter.
Captain Smollett:
My new spire motto is going to be "gotta have more cannon" with the voice of Christopher Walken in my head as I say it.
I really do think a 45 degree turn on the lower port gun and a 15 degree on the upper starboard gun could really make the Spire a feared ship in combat.
I agree with Zill in that Quadfectas are rarely op since firing on a Spire can stop the quadfecta by either disabling a weapon, popping the balloon, setting a fire or damaging the hull in order to force a repair and any sort of horizontal maneuver will make the pilot abandon his gun or lose firing arcs.
I think it would be pretty cool to set loose the quadfecta spire on GOI and if it turns out to be op it'd be pretty easy to turn it back into the slow moving giant punching bag that it is now.
Spires gotta have more cannon!
Crafeksterty:
Omniraptor pretty much has the more saturated strengths and weaknesses narrowed down.
If you just add this 45 degree buff it will not change much or change too much. This is being said because of weapons, weapons are a balance on its own, so if a weapon that the spire uses alot gets buffed, then the spire may be percieved as OP. So fi one of the three available guns we have today are buffed or tweaked to comfort the spire, it will then either be fine or broken on other ships and etc.
The degree buff on the weapon slot does not just effect the spire, but the weapon used on it.
I still going to have to say that buffing the spires stats someway or another, in my oppinion the acceleration is our best bet so we dont ruin other ships.
--- Quote ---Mobula is way faster though and can dodge much more reliably, plus it's a light gun platform that can keep a trifecta at all times without akward turning and can change from close range to long range very easily, that alone is much to differientate it from the Spire.
--- End quote ---
I disagree, the mobula has the most akward turning ever, keeping that trifecta is easy but keep aim at a target flying around you, doing god knows what, and just because of that, it has a tough time fighting back after "escaping". It even has a tougher time maintaining repairs than the spire. BUT because that the mobula can dodge duck dip dive and dodge for it is smaller than the spire.
If you have seen me flying on some tourneys then you know that being a though target to hit as the spire can mean alot to your teamate. But most of those times when i try to dodge i always have my hull down at some point.
That is why acceleration boost will help it out, like alot. It will even do hella good with close range weapons on open maps. It will be viable at dodging sniper shots, the 45 weapon degree will not.
I disagree completely on the upper right gun getting a 15 or so degree buff, that could be a bit too dangerouse. Again it is all worth testing but imagine a pyra that rams even at long range, that is what the spire then may become.
Echoez:
--- Quote from: Crafeksterty on October 10, 2013, 02:33:20 am ---If you have seen me flying on some tourneys then you know that being a though target to hit as the spire can mean alot to your teamate. But most of those times when i try to dodge i always have my hull down at some point.
That is why acceleration boost will help it out, like alot. It will even do hella good with close range weapons on open maps. It will be viable at dodging sniper shots, the 45 weapon degree will not.
--- End quote ---
I don't disagree that buffing its acceleration is a good idea, but making it more 'cannon'-ish is a priority since the ship's focus should be its firepower. It IS a sniper after all.
--- Quote from: Crafeksterty on October 10, 2013, 02:33:20 am ---I disagree completely on the upper right gun getting a 15 or so degree buff, that could be a bit too dangerouse. Again it is all worth testing but imagine a pyra that rams even at long range, that is what the spire then may become.
--- End quote ---
I'm sorry but the Galleon already does that a million times better than any Spire would hope to do and nobody complained it's OP, why would the Spire be OP cause of one more light gun that has a choice variety that isn't just "Artemis or Banshee cause the arc is shit"? Care to explain what's the difference?
People already exclaimed their worries about 2 Merc, which I find very comical and over-reactionary to be honest, but 15 degrees will help a ton of other guns that could go there while keeping 2Merc non-viable due to no arc overlapping.
The whole point of turning the other top gun isn't to put a second Merc on it (even though I believe this should be an option as well, but I digress, people seem to be too scared of it even though the twin Merc meta is long gone), but to make other guns viable there so you can keep the frontal Merc cause right now, there isn't much choice and if you want an other gun there that works without having to turn your ship JUST right, you need to have either a Banshee or an Artemis and that's a very depressing number of choices.
Balancing aside, you have to think of the gameplay experience as well. 1.2 Merc was fine balacing wise, barely, but it was still a horrible experience to go against it for example. Making the ship too much of a hassle to play also detracts from its appeal and right now that top right gun is a massive hassle (requires too much precise turning that might throw off your gunner's shots, mess other arcs, blah blah blah, can keep going for ever) for anything that isn't a Banshee or an Artemis, with the later turning so slow as well.
Crafeksterty:
--- Quote --- you need to have either a Banshee or an Artemis and that's a very depressing number of choices.
--- End quote ---
Wooooaaat?!?!?!
OOooh Hold on, imma make a vid now. And i will show you. (Dont take this hard, i wanted to do this anyway :P )
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