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Lumberjack Discussion

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Captain Smollett:
I'm pretty sure Hydro does more damage than is indicated.

Does it take longer to break other ship's balloon?

Letus:
Facts of why the Lumberjack seems overpowered, in the opinion of Letus.

1.)  Practice  -- People who practice with this gun tend to get really good at it, or so it seems.

2.)  Predictability  --  You are going to do either one of two things against a lumberjack....charge them, or stay away and try to merc them.  Both are relatively simple to track.  In Dunes, you don't really got much of a choice for cover...granted.  And you sniping mercury ships aren't going to be moving around often....kinda just...sit there allowing the gunners of the Lumberjack to get their gauge....(thanks, btw.)

3.)  Overuse of the Hwatcha -- You ain't going to hit them before they hit you...

4.)  Too much reliabilty on the gungineer -- I'm sorry?  Did I make your gatling gun guy camp your balloon while your other engineer is camping the hull?  Maybe if your gunner would change guns he can easily gat, and keep that lumberjack, down....

6.)  Missconception of the Min Range -- Come on, 110 Meters isn't that far........but that's why my ship has flare guns~



Ever seen the killing power of a merc + typhon spire?  It's still insane.  Oh wait...
nobody does these anymore.

yes I know 5 is gone, there was never a 5.  All you knowledge of 5 is a lie

okay fine

5.)  It takes a good LJ gunner to fight another LJ.  Or a well coordinated team.  Can't focus on two ships charging me as I can focus on two ships attacking my ally ship...let alone 3.....but hopefully our wingship is willing and able to help counter those close encounters...

Machiavelliest:
I'm going to throw out there that the disparity here might be that the Lumberjack is well-balanced for new gunners, but insanely deadly in the hands of experienced ones.  Play with or against Charon or Kubitsuri on the Lumberjack and it really changes the dynamics of what the weapon is capable of.

I'd argue that the originally difficult technique of firing the weapon was used as a balancing factor.  The baseline skill has improved for the weapon, and thus that balancing factor might be argued as not effective against well-trained gunners.  The game stats aren't the only variable here--the skill level and composition of the community is changing, so the game must change to accomodate that.

Personally, I feel that a little balancing is needed to prevent very skilled Lumberjackers from being able to single-weapon kill so quickly against another target.  The carronades pop balloons, but if you double up carronade, people don't die this fast, and it's much tougher to do that.

Ofiach:
That was what bugged me about Awkm's post. He basically said well people didn't have the skill to hit with the first shot so we added two more round since people needed 2 shots to find the ranges.

Ummmm what? A high skill high reward weapon is what this thing is touted as, and you just dumbed it down to let anyone use it?

Also baseline skill has gone up so much with the gun and with the advent of alot of new players and forum tips you can get really deadly with that gun really fast. Maybe before people didn't know about checking the map for ranges or what the ranges were just by landmarks. Guess what! They do now and the gun is sighted in by anyone whose actually practiced with it.

Sure a guys first game with no idea how it works might be rough. Someone who takes maybe 2-3 hours to figure the gun out becomes an instant deathdealer. I've also seen plenty of people pick the gun up for the first time and with the littlest of coaching destroy everything.

@ Letus that was a point I made in the guns balance thread, the only counter is perfect teamplay or just exchanging lumber shots. And I'm sorry but if the only real 1 on 1 counter to something is another of that same thing. It needs a look.

I could make another FPS reference here but then people would just focus on that to derail any other point made. So I'll stick to this, in any other game when a gun can only be countered by that same gun it gets changed.

RustedShut:
The only reason I even started flying a Lumberfish is to counter the millions of Gat/Flank ships out there rushing into brawling range.  You nerf the LJ and I'm forced right back into the Gat/Flank to stay competitive and then it's just a race to see who's hull explodes faster.  Exciting.

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