Author Topic: The Anglean Republic  (Read 33421 times)

Offline Lord Dick Tim

  • CA Mod
  • Salutes: 119
    • 7
    • View Profile
Re: The Anglean Republic
« Reply #30 on: May 16, 2013, 03:09:33 am »
So highly organized, hmm...  What about modeling them more off the Finnish militaries around the WW2 era?

Offline Ofiach

  • Member
  • Salutes: 25
    • [FALC]
    • 5
    • 10 
    • View Profile
Re: The Anglean Republic
« Reply #31 on: May 16, 2013, 09:29:47 am »
I still see the Lords angle working quite well, each lord or clan has it's own Personal guard and they give troops to the central military and raiding parties.

Offline Sgt. Spoon

  • Member
  • Salutes: 112
    • [Keno]
    • 3
    • View Profile
Re: The Anglean Republic
« Reply #32 on: May 16, 2013, 12:09:31 pm »
I still see the Lords angle working quite well, each lord or clan has it's own Personal guard and they give troops to the central military and raiding parties.

Though I have to say that our plans for the Angleans to have several lords or tribes are starting to sound very much like the Baronies feudal system with differentl Lords and families.

Offline Gato Blanco

  • Member
  • Salutes: 8
    • 5
    • View Profile
Re: The Anglean Republic
« Reply #33 on: May 16, 2013, 12:23:11 pm »
I do recall one of the devs in the youtube video saying something about "Town hall democracy" or something.  Though I do agree, the more influencial families would help pay for the central military more than the average citizen, I'd think that raiding parties would be more of a thing that the coastal settlements would be concerned with.  The inland settlements would be more concerned with developing technologies that increase their chances of survival in the north.

Now, I know that they're based off of scandanavian people, and I'm  milking the Sami connection.  I recall something about Inuit people being very open to sharing resources.  They hang fish outside to be preserved, and if someone needed them, they could have some.  Since the Anglean people need to pull together, it would make sence that the raiding and trading settlements of the coast would share resources with the mining and development settlmets of the interior

Offline HamsterIV

  • Member
  • Salutes: 328
    • 10 
    • 45
    • 45 
    • View Profile
    • Monkey Dev
Re: The Anglean Republic
« Reply #34 on: May 16, 2013, 01:47:08 pm »
So highly organized, hmm...  What about modeling them more off the Finnish militaries around the WW2 era?

Oh god no, the last thing this game needs is the white death. Some lone gunman lurking in a crevice with a tin of beans and a kill count in the thousands. Imagine an airship invasion coming in when one by one the captain chat falls silent. The crew mingle about uncertainly, they know he is out there but they don't know where. Nobody feels brave enough to poke their head above the deck and look for him. Nobody alive anyway.

Offline Ofiach

  • Member
  • Salutes: 25
    • [FALC]
    • 5
    • 10 
    • View Profile
Re: The Anglean Republic
« Reply #35 on: May 16, 2013, 04:59:07 pm »
To refine my point a bit here.

The Clan/Tribal system isn't the one you're probably think of it is more like a Nation-State, they just call them Clans because well it's heritage! Each Clan contributes members to a type of ruling advisory committee and there is a High Lord and a Centralized city of government, I still think a High Lord should be elected upon the death of the old High Lord. Once again he doesn't meddle in the affairs of the clans but he does have ultimate say in raiding rights and political decisions. As for the day to day decisions and a Clans own military he does not interfere unless something is terribly wrong.

 Thanes and thralls and norse vernacular would fit with these guys also, you can have a very organized society bound by strict rules of ethics concerning eachother, and their thralls, but with a "your stuff is our stuff" mentality to other cultures.

Example: Yeshan Empire finds a way to make an airship lighter and faster. The High Lord decides to send a military force to capture it and puts certain Clan Lords in charge of the operation. Clan Lords talk build a flotilla and send them on their way under the command of one of their Thanes.

Another piece of fluff, Discipline would have to be quick and brutal. Their environment can kill them they can't have someone being a complete... errm screw up. So if you do screw up and survive you are punished swiftly. "Cruel and unusual" by todays standards, but honestly aren't cruel and unusual punishments the kind that grab peoples attention? I don't see them running a prison system either because, to put it plainly, they couldn't afford to feed a bunch of useless criminals. Punishments are dealt and everyone moves on afterwards.   

Last thing here. These people would be very family oriented, children are taught by the entire community, maybe there aren't sit in the classroom schools but each child is given lessons from the different professions. Even if he is most likely to take over his fathers profession.

Also how would women be treated in this society? I was thinking about it and thought they would be more inclined to raise families and tend the cities while the men flew around raiding. However they aren't forced into those roles and can become pilots, engineers and Marauders as well. Just wondering if anyone had any input on that.

@ Jess I have no clue how you plan on writing all these ideas for 6 cultures..... your mind must be on a whole nother level of creative than a normal humans :P

Offline Gato Blanco

  • Member
  • Salutes: 8
    • 5
    • View Profile
Re: The Anglean Republic
« Reply #36 on: May 17, 2013, 04:12:35 am »
YAY SPECULATION!  took longer than i thought to write this.

Reiterating the national politcal strucutre
High Lord/High King- Learder of the Allthing
Allthing-governing body
Clans-Families/organisations that are present in most settlements around Anglea, to varying strenthgs depending on the settlement.  Quite likely to have seats in the Allthing
Thane-Local representative/learder of the clans in a settlement, runs day to day activities as well as being in charge of a specific task given to it by their Clan Lord

The High King and/or the Allthing can give a task to a clan or clans, preferably ones that has performed well in the past or have shown aptitide for the particular task (Though this is unappealing to the Clans, they want to be the only one performing the task)
The Clan(s) and the Allthing/High King convene and choose a location to perform the task.  Other clans may be recruited into the endevour based on their aplitude or strength in the settlement.
The Thane(s) in charge would do the bookeeping, getting thralls and citizens and ships and factories and whatever, and oversee the task from his base of opperations.  Raids may or may not have their Thane in the field, depending on factors.  Because reasons.

Certain clans could have more skilled engineers, and the senario that you illustrated could be accomplished by 2 clans, a clan for retrieval and a clan for reverse engineering, one of whom's speciality is raiding, whereas the other one is understanding and immitating.  There could even be a third clan, a minor player, whos job is to take a look at the blueprints and get to improving on the design after it has been understoodl

I read about what they did for discipline in World War Z, where they would use things like Pillories for public shaming for light offences. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pillory  I can see the use of brands for more serious offences, the design and location depends on the severity of the crime.  Capital punishment is met with beheading, Stark style.  Local Thane with his own sword.  Brutal, quick (usually) and lets them become productive members of society or agriculture again.

I totally agree with your point on women, and I'd like to take it a step further.   Viking (I know, I know, theyre not vikings) women were mostly left to work and maintain their home (as opposed to go out and raid which was the man's role), but they had absolute control over her domain, indicated by the symbolism of the keys.  (Because its on the internet, it must be true http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ancient/vikings/women_01.shtml)  Using this, I'd suspect that female Anglean pilots would own their own ships, and use some sort of key/compass motif on their person to show their status as mistresses of their domains.  Furthermore, it is indicated that viking women were apt in the art of trading, thus a lot of the Angean merchant fleet would be lead by women.  Women would play an equal part in Anglean society, but somewhat avoid the super testosterone machismo warfare side of it.  Which is the best side, btw. 

Offline Lord Dick Tim

  • CA Mod
  • Salutes: 119
    • 7
    • View Profile
Re: The Anglean Republic
« Reply #37 on: May 17, 2013, 05:28:07 am »
I love how we are told, no, not Vikings, and suddenly it's "ok Sami and Norse then."

So this society is good to its people, what about civic services, hospitals, volunteerism, police?

Offline Ofiach

  • Member
  • Salutes: 25
    • [FALC]
    • 5
    • 10 
    • View Profile
Re: The Anglean Republic
« Reply #38 on: May 17, 2013, 02:32:35 pm »
Well my initial thinking was along the lines of the Clans having their most skilled engineers joining a Guild of Engineers or some such body, I can see the Clans ruling their domain and requesting aid from the super skilled engineers when theirresident engineers need help.

I see the same for the military and the trade organizations in this society. There is a centralized form of everything but also a local form. So the Clan Lords have their own engineers. pilots, tacticians, and traders. The High Lord of the Allthing also has it's own set of these and uses them to bolster and support Lords in need.

Maybe the Allthing focuses more on the trade and engineering while the military is handled by the individual clan Lords. The High Lord just tells them if he wants a specific target taken, then bestows the honor of the fight on certain Lords.

As for the discipline I think branding might be over the top, they want to punish the mistake not shame the guy who made it. Their mentqality is you screwed up we punished you it's over now go do better.

Offline Ofiach

  • Member
  • Salutes: 25
    • [FALC]
    • 5
    • 10 
    • View Profile
Re: The Anglean Republic
« Reply #39 on: May 17, 2013, 09:39:01 pm »
Ok so at this point I'm beating the Anglean Republic to death but.....

Their Marauders, the actual ground infantry that goes in blows S**t up and pillages. How would these guys be set up?

I was thinking they would usually operate in bands of 20-30 split into 5 man groups. The reason I say 20-30 is simple, you can't fit many more than that on an airship before you start worrying about weight, 10 men with armor and weapons could easily hit 2000lbs. Take into account these boys are probably from hardy stock and train all the time.

I think their leadership would be somewhat simplistic, 6 team leaders in a 30 man group each with a specific place in the hierarchy, so if say a couple team leaders die there is no confusion as to who's running the whole band once they come back together after hitting a city.

I'm not talking about a military infantry unit here I'm talking about a highly specialized group of crazies that "Hot Drop" off airships into a city and slaughter the opposition. These aren't barbarians howling and raping, they're just efficient and brutal. Imagine a city already going bonkers because of an airship battle overhead also having to deal with 30 killing machines unleashed in the streets.

I can also see these guys used as an advanced scouting team. maybe 5 of them go into a bigger city and scout the defenses and sabotage them a couple months before a raid happens. Disguised as traders or freelancers, then when the city is taken they can stick around or just leave. (I'm drawing this idea from the "Black Company" book series) as far as getting their reports to their allies, well carrier pigeons worked just fine for a long time.

Ok now onto their look, I do like the idea of them wearing some sort of body armor, I like it even better imagining them impersonating a societies demons. As for weapons I would think these would be compact firearms maybe even just simple handguns, they can liberate rifles from the troops they kill if they need them. I would also imagine them bring explosives of some sort, the really nice stuff tends to be locked away. This next one is just something I like and probably not really practical buuuut... Blades of some sort, they're going to be doing alot of their work close quarters inside buildings and that can lead to hand to hand alot, a blade of some kind could end those fights quick.

As for the handguns thing, I just don't see a group of Marauders lugging around big rifles, they will be doing alot of moving so they don't get bogged down fighting big enemy forces. I'm picturing an M1 garand style rifle as being as being the main infantry weapon more than a Tommy Gun or MP40.

Offline Gato Blanco

  • Member
  • Salutes: 8
    • 5
    • View Profile
Re: The Anglean Republic
« Reply #40 on: May 18, 2013, 12:22:11 am »
I'd suspect most marauders would be proficient in repelling, which 1)gets those boots on the ground faster 2) doesnt leave their ships exposed and 3) sows even more confusion if they drop the squads over a larger area faster.

As for armor, I agree that they would use dress up to psych out the enemy, but be built primarily for function.  I imagine that they would wear something like this http://www.awm.gov.au/collection/REL23774/ for face protection (I know its circa WWI).  They would probably do something with the eyes, like use goggles, something more steampunk than balaclavas and motorcycle helmets that SWAT units use today.

As for gun choices, I don't quite understand your last paragraph.  I would think that they would use shotguns, leaning towards semi-auto shotguns like the SPAS, or submachine guns and assault rifles without stocks or with detachable/foldig stocks.  Marauders want to be loud and fast, and be able to deal death at short range.  Another point about the stocks: they dont want their guns getting in the way, so they would gladly sacrifice weapon stability for maneuverability

Offline Lord Dick Tim

  • CA Mod
  • Salutes: 119
    • 7
    • View Profile
Re: The Anglean Republic
« Reply #41 on: May 18, 2013, 01:25:23 am »
So we are looking at medium armor, severe uniformity and precision tactics.  Marauders would be still outnumbered by enemy militia units, so terror and diversion would have to work in their favor or get mowed down by superior fire.
But we are also talking, from what we know, a civilized people.  Would a civilized people have some constraints on targets, rules of engagement and so forth?  Would they deam certain weapons or tactics to be to cruel or unreasonable?

Offline Gato Blanco

  • Member
  • Salutes: 8
    • 5
    • View Profile
Re: The Anglean Republic
« Reply #42 on: May 18, 2013, 01:57:04 am »
Rules of engagement; none.  They expect no quarter, and if anything impedes the mission, they will give no quarter.  They wouldnt shoot at a crowd, but rather shoot above it, partially out of human decency (and cattle analogy, see below), but also because civilians stampeding away will impede milita running towards the raiding party.

If they were on a revenge mission, I'd say it would be carte blanche (White phosphorous, killing everyone, etc.) but thats the criteria of those kinds of missions.  I would think, other times, that they would mow down only dangerous resistance, like militia who aren't dropping their guns or running away.  Id think they would avoid using human shields as it is seen as dishonorable, but if the situation was dire, and allies are dropping left and right, I dont think that immediate superiors would talk about it, if they managed to get out alive.  For your consideration; baby armor.  http://cdn.overclock.net/d/d0/478x534px-LL-d0021e73_BabyArmor.jpeg

Flashbangs and tear gas would find a good home in raiding parties.  I dont think that they would use chemical or biological warfare (like nerve gas or mustard gas), since their usual objective is living people or items, not devistating long term effects on a population.  They may see them a bit like cattle, they need to be healthy to produce things for raiders to raid.

Offline Lord Dick Tim

  • CA Mod
  • Salutes: 119
    • 7
    • View Profile
Re: The Anglean Republic
« Reply #43 on: May 18, 2013, 02:13:19 am »
We also have then option of being a little idealistic, fiction gives us that avenue to allow for things to happen that those of us experienced in war would shake their heads at and say, "ya, not likely".

Additionally we are looking at a people that have been compared to Vikings, but aren't Vikings.  The age of dust destroyed everything it seems, and the culture of these people would be determined by their environment first.
I'm thinking we haven't considered the role of the family unit enough, or the dramatic impact family and community have on this people's day to day survival and how that would affect the way they make war on others.

Offline Ofiach

  • Member
  • Salutes: 25
    • [FALC]
    • 5
    • 10 
    • View Profile
Re: The Anglean Republic
« Reply #44 on: May 18, 2013, 11:01:01 am »
I believe they would have semi strict fire control when it comes to a women or a child trying to come after them with a butcher knife. A quick hit to the head with an armored fist to end the threat and then move on. Also they aren't going to try and kill everything that moves if they can herd a crowd with some explosives with the same power of an m80 but that made an impressive fireball they would. Their environment is harsh, I would almost believe it forces them to be somewhat ruthless but fair. As in they won't normally engage in wholesale slaughter but the leadership of a local militia would be primary targets.   

As for the armor, cosmetic add ons to practical armor would not be that hard, and wouldn't add much weight. Hell maybe these guys even wear the same uniforms as a local militia with only a telltale to prove that they aren't, just to add that much more confusion to the raid.

Also concerning their weapons, I just don't see an assault rifle that isn't clunky being around during this time period. Buuuut I will admit that Switzerland did have a nice submachine gun just after WW1 the Furrer IIRC. Things like the TBK-220 bullpup didn't get made until WW2. The German MP18.1 was probably the only one I can think of that actually saw use during ww1. I could be way off my nut on this one because it has been a while since I read about WW1. Now as that could pertain to this world..... I dunno, to me those would be a pinnacle of engineering and I wouldn't see them as being in widespread use, I could be wrong though. Maybe a single Sub machine gun per group or something along those lines.

Also these are combat situations that no one today get's to experience. These are raids on walled cities with standing militias and airships. Where a few insane guys get dropped into the city pretty much cut off from support until your airships win and come get you, or until you're trying to get out of the city to save your skin. It has some parallels to modern urban fighting but their goals are much different, they aren't trying to secure the city they are going for very specific targets and causing as much bloody havoc along the way as the need to. They are always outnumbered and only survive because they can keep the enemy guessing as to their target and movement.

I would also assume the entire reason for these raids are for their families. To bring back needed supplies and medicines. That "we don't like you very much" attitude would surface and they would use any means necessary to get what they wanted. A little torture, a little bribery, threatening someones family etc. are all bargaining tools in the Anglean bag.