On the subject of vote kick...

[Unarmed Civilian]

I personally still think it is better than not having it, because the alternative is worse.

People who decline loadouts or refuse to follow directions or get on the 4th gun on a pyra as a gunner instead of the 1st are often subject to verbal abuse as pilots vent their frustration at what they perceive as the source of their frustration until that player abandons the match of their own accord or the match ends so they can leave without hurting their completion record (which people do care about).

I myself, to people have refused loadouts repeatedly after myself explaining why I am recommending a loadout, have berated them, called them out to the entire lobby, blocked them, recommended the rest of the lobby block them, and suggested a full relocation of the entire lobby so that they would not have to deal with that player, left the match, and decided to just do something else for the day because now I'm in a foul mood.

The BRR method can be applied to newbies as well. I don't know if it would feel any better for 3 people to leave because they don't want to deal with you, have to sit on a ship with a pilot who wishes he never got on the helm with you, or just get kicked and have to requeue.

...

Not to mention the actual trolls who spin in place to avoid autokick.


This will definitely be a wholesome discussion.

[HamsterIV]

While many people will agree with you, Muse has made their position quite clear:

http://gunsoficarus.com/faq/#nokick

[Solidusbucket]

This system would be abused.
Alternative is to create a password lobby and invite people you know/trust.

[Daft Loon]

What we need.

-Remove the decline option from loadouts, failing that displaying recommendations to the whole crew to create some peer pressure.
-Auto accept hanging loadouts that are at least 5s old when the lobby ends.
-Create a secondary block list that actually blocks all interactions including joining the same ship in any way. As a necessary concession to having a 'functional' matchmaker it could be limited to 10 players with an expiry of 10 days for each block.
-Provide actual non automated feedback to everyone who is reported/reports someone, even if in most cases its just "We're watching you/them" it would be better than a system that for all I can see does absolutely nothing.
-Auto creation of novice and vet matches when at least 75% full of only the correct type of players.

If a kick function is implemented it should just be captains kick, the vote part makes no sense on a ship of only 4 players or a team where half or more aren't party to the crew chat.

[Hoja Lateralus]

Fly only with your friends, don't have strangers on your ship. Problem solved.

... at least I have an impression that Muse thinks like that.

Although I personally kinda agree on captains kick, it makes possible abuse worse. If you want to try convince Muse* I'd rather suggest a team vote. Then it's more difficult to abuse it with one ship, but still possible to use, especially if you crew with two unful ships.

*they are stubborn but are known to do a full 180 on some things

[Unarmed Civilian]

A vote kick should be a unanimous vote from the rest of the crew, and only possible with a fully crewed ship. That makes it very difficult to actually votekick, but still possible if it is really necessary. If you wanted to force the issue without a full crew, you would need someone else to hop over to cooperate.  Captain's vote is not a good idea, since they are usually the one who is most upset.

[Atruejedi]

During this past weekend's Chaos Skirmish, we had a(n otherwise cool) guy who apparently DIED during our lobby randomization. He was in the captain's slot and wouldn't change ships, wouldn't type, wouldn't talk... we had to get [Muse] MetaFive to join and boot him from the lobby. Thank goodness MetaFive was online, or we'd have had to reform the lobby and restructure a 32-person match.

Custom lobbies definitely need a kick option for the lobby creator if the lobby remains private. And if a vote-kick option existed for PUBLIC lobbies... I'd want an overwhelming supermajority to actually kick someone. Like 80%. Otherwise, yes, it would be abused to hell and back (and I can already feel myself getting kicked by stackers and elitists for raging against the machine )

[Solidusbucket]

During this past weekend's Chaos Skirmish, we had a(n otherwise cool) guy who apparently DIED during our lobby randomization. He was in the captain's slot and wouldn't change ships, wouldn't type, wouldn't talk... we had to get [Muse] MetaFive to join and boot him from the lobby. Thank goodness MetaFive was online, or we'd have had to reform the lobby and restructure a 32-person match.

Custom lobbies definitely need a kick option for the lobby creator if the lobby remains private. And if a vote-kick option existed for PUBLIC lobbies... I'd want an overwhelming supermajority to actually kick someone. Like 80%. Otherwise, yes, it would be abused to hell and back (and I can already feel myself getting kicked by stackers and elitists for raging against the machine )

^

[Schwalbe]

Hahahahahaaha.

Hahahahahahaha.
Hahahaha, hoohohoho, hahahaha





Carry on, mindless sheep. Feed onn petty hopes that shall never come true in any degree.

If Muse is blind as to how lack of such feature can drove away fair chunk of player base, why the fucking hell would they even consider your concerns any valid?

Muse be like: Alliance hurr durr.
Muse be like: Veterans can't into fun.

[Richard LeMoon]

What if you had limited votes to kick per day/week? This would prevent spam kicking and make people think a bit more on how to best use their votes. I rarely feel the need to kick someone.

[Squidslinger Gilder]

What if you had limited votes to kick per day/week? This would prevent spam kicking and make people think a bit more on how to best use their votes. I rarely feel the need to kick someone.

I'd run out within 5 mins and then I'd just not play the game for a week until I got more. But I can guarantee, my crews that would stay would be the happiest crews in the world because I'd get rid of the trolls. Trolls should never be tolerated, just castrated and put into a tiny little box filled with other trolls where they'd proceed to fight each other to the death.

Vote kick being abused is worth having a vote kick. The alternative is what we have now. An unstable, flawed, system where there is no consequences for abusers. Don't dare bring up CAs or CA mods. They aren't always around,  have no real power, and people figure that out really fast. It's like giving a police officer a rubber gun and then ask them to subdue a riot, then stand there with a smile, doing nothing, while the mob strips them naked and spray paints obscene art all over them.

[RearAdmiralZill]

CA Mods do in fact have a stick to use, but nowhere is there a rule that states someone has to accept your "recommended" load-outs. As a veteran who has strict builds in play to maximize my boat's play, I can sympathize, but how far will kicking go?

The biggest issue here isn't even trolls. It's the design of Guns of Icarus (not a bad thing, I'm elaborating). What other game forces this much team play? Even "team-based" games allow individual players to shine. Guns puts a lot of pressure on a Captain to literally tell the three others to do x y and z. Beyond very structured raids, you just don't see this elsewhere, and people can do as they please, to a degree. A crew in Guns just can't do as they please and be at the top of their game, even going so far as to say it generally sucks when that goes on.You have a random person from the internet telling you orders and how to play. If you get the design of Guns, you're ok with this. Welcome to our community. Many don't.

Any system put into place can be then trolled. Required load outs? Troll captain puts useless tools. Kick functions? You're going to have cases where a decent person gets kicked because x y and z. No kicking? Trolls and decent people alike get berated and shunned for not doing something they "should." The low population can't sustain any of this, and people end up ditching it altogether.

Do I have a solution? Not really besides getting this design mentality across when I can. I realize the implications of keeping everything the same right now, but so far any solutions I've seen to the current issue of "rogue" players who are either trolling or not trusting some guy on the internet to order him around just hurt the system in play.

[Niels Juel]

This system would be abused.
Alternative is to create a password lobby and invite people you know/trust.

Which works oh so well with the number of players we have these days...

[Byron Cavendish]

What if you had limited votes to kick per day/week? This would prevent spam kicking and make people think a bit more on how to best use their votes. I rarely feel the need to kick someone.

I'd run out within 5 mins and then I'd just not play the game for a week until I got more. But I can guarantee, my crews that would stay would be the happiest crews in the world because I'd get rid of the trolls. Trolls should never be tolerated, just castrated and put into a tiny little box filled with other trolls where they'd proceed to fight each other to the death.

Vote kick being abused is worth having a vote kick. The alternative is what we have now. An unstable, flawed, system where there is no consequences for abusers. Don't dare bring up CAs or CA mods. They aren't always around,  have no real power, and people figure that out really fast. It's like giving a police officer a rubber gun and then ask them to subdue a riot, then stand there with a smile, doing nothing, while the mob strips them naked and spray paints obscene art all over them.

IS anyone else aroused?

[The Mann]

If you ever need me in game when I am not there, Ask to add me on steam or ask for a mod in their discord.