SHIPS Balance Questions and Concerns v1.2

[Mattilald Anguisad]

Before 1.2 everybody was laughing at junkers only captains, but now junkers are actualy a viable ship in competitive meta. The narrow hull is one of the saving graces of the ship allong with the ability to repair hull armor from below, good acceleration and good turning speed - especialy contrasted to how fragile it is.

[Chrinus]

I'm not out to rebuild the Junker. I like the ship and her design, strengths, and weaknesses. She's in a solid state overall, I agree. My only disagreement is with how unparalleled her ability to keep target is as a ship capable of wide converging arcs, it's a tough ship to get an approach angle on. On the other hand, a ship posing a fairly consistent threat forces pilots to adapt or conform, and those loving the other ships will assuredly bring new ideas into the game to counter them.

[NikolaiLev]

I'm not out to rebuild the Junker. I like the ship and her design, strengths, and weaknesses. She's in a solid state overall, I agree. My only disagreement is with how unparalleled her ability to keep target is as a ship capable of wide converging arcs, it's a tough ship to get an approach angle on. On the other hand, a ship posing a fairly consistent threat forces pilots to adapt or conform, and those loving the other ships will assuredly bring new ideas into the game to counter them.

This, combined with its good armor are pretty much its only strengths.  Remember how underpowered the Junker was before it was made extremely agile and tanky.  That's its niche, now.

I think there are a few weapons with arcs wider than they strictly should be (artemis) but other than that, I don't perceive the Junker as overpowered.  Remember the inherent tradeoff you get for having three crew on weapons.

The Spire may possibly deserve some more turn rate and acceleration.  It should be the best in both of those categories, and it should be the best by a decent margin.

[Mattilald Anguisad]

The Spire may possibly deserve some more turn rate and acceleration.  It should be the best in both of those categories, and it should be the best by a decent margin.

sorry but that destinction should ALWAYS bellong to the squid, for without it, it is absolutely NOTHING.

[NikolaiLev]

The Spire may possibly deserve some more turn rate and acceleration.  It should be the best in both of those categories, and it should be the best by a decent margin.

sorry but that destinction should ALWAYS bellong to the squid, for without it, it is absolutely NOTHING.

Oh, yeah, my bad.  This is definitely true, to the point where I sort of assume it to be true.  Aside from the Squid, the Spire should have the best turn rate.  :p

[Captain Smollett]

I'm going to spend a lot of time with the good ol' Spire this week to wrap my head around what it needs since it feels like it could still use a tad more love. 

My current line of thinking is with NikolaiLev in that it would definitely benefit from faster turning (like in pre 1.2) and a bit more acceleration.

I also think it wouldn't hurt to turn the right gun forward an additional 5 degrees to give it a slightly easier time making the trifecta so that more light guns are viable in the right weapon slot.

Since the Spire is so incredibly fragile, I don't think any of these changes would unbalance the game, and could hopefully start creeping the Spire to the point where people would start being scared to go against one rather than thinking about the easy point on the board they usually provide.

[Arthem White]

Also, the Spire should get a bonus for ramming directly downwards. Because it would look awesome.

[Moo]

Also, the Spire should get a bonus for ramming directly downwards. Because it would look awesome.

Heh...

[HamsterIV]

The Spire may possibly deserve some more turn rate and acceleration.  It should be the best in both of those categories, and it should be the best by a decent margin.

sorry but that destinction should ALWAYS bellong to the squid, for without it, it is absolutely NOTHING.

The squid's strait line speed and acceleration is more than enough to make it worth while. It doesn't need to be the fastest at turning, but it is a nice bonus. I don't think I am the only one who finds the squid a bit squirrely.

[Queso]

I still find the lack of an effective close range all around weapon or disabling weapon the biggest issue. Flames used to serve that role quite well till they stopped being able to disable guns at all.

[NikolaiLev]

I still find the lack of an effective close range all around weapon or disabling weapon the biggest issue. Flames used to serve that role quite well till they stopped being able to disable guns at all.

Combined with the fact a Flamer was made unreliable for setting things on fire, the Flamethrower was made entirely useless.  A Gatling or even a Carronade is just better in every way at this point.

The Squid's speed is good, but it's not good enough to make it a good ship.  I don't think the problem would be solved by simply giving it more speed, though, especially with how ridiculously good the ship is at Resource Race.

It needs more armor, first of all.  It currently has 225 armor and 850 hull, or so.  Give it 450 armor and 450 hull, instead, so it's better at hit and run.

Something needs to be done about its firepower, as well.  I feel the nerf to Explosive damage was the biggest hit to its kill power (while the nerf to fire was an equally huge hit to its disabling power).  There would need to be a weapon that deals both piercing and explosive damage, perhaps at a prohibitively close range.  That, or it needs two front guns, or two side guns, or a gun on the forward-right (ala the Spire).

Giving it an extra weapon platform on the aforementioned position, instead of moving it, would actually do quite a lot for giving the ship utility and power.  Alternatively, it could be given a heavy weapon on the side or rear, but I don't quite like that option as much.

[Captain Smollett]

I don't think the squid needs anything near that radical for changes. It was actually competitive prior to 1.2.

The only difference was a little more maneuverability, hydrogen and effective carronades.

The low armor wasn't a problem since you could dodge once your armor dropped and eventually could position yourself for a disable.

All the ship needs is a bit more dodging capability and a close range weapon.

[Ofiach]

Did we ever get a real solid answer on the balloon HP changes? Are the tooltips wrong on some of the captain tools or what?

[Squash]

It's worth saying the current squid's value might explode once the minelayer enters the game, depending on how it works.

[uriak]

Like in that other topics, my thoughts in a nutshell.

Goldfish :
With : nice to steear, the lone medium front weapon tends to push people to use the manticore, as it disables easily and its reload time let the steerer angle his side weapons quite effectively.
Against : interesting ennemy, the presence of the front gun makes for good and timely decisions when fighting it. Plus it's the ideal ship to counter engage when its attacking an ally

Pyramidion :
with : a simple but effective mechanic. The way the decks are made the side guns barely see use but that leaves place for some special weapons.
against : a bit annoying to fight, more lethal than a goldfish on average but the steering issue more than compensates

Galleon :
with : seldom used, a very "brick" feeling. Nice to manage to get those twin medium guns firing though.
against : once again interesting to fight, as it moves slowly and you really really want to engage it on bling angles.

Spire
with : I have a bad experience with this one. A huge firepower and less than enviable survability means you really need your crew to pucnh a pack very fast if you want to achieve something
against : a glass cannon, just hope they miss their shots, once chased, disabled, a really crunchy target.

Junker
with : the ship I do the most kills with, simply put a lethal weapon. Steering is quite sweet, you won't engage is crazy manoeuver most of the time. managing to keep the trifecta firing is a good feeling
against : the whole fire arc of this ship doesn't let much room for crazy tactics. You won't be disabled when engaging one but you may get hurt quite quickly. I really don't like attacking one with a lower range ship.

Squid
With : steering is a blast. I dunno if it's possigble to achieve two guns firing together. That means you must have something interesting as your "main gun" and it can difficult. I usually go with carnode, but against pyramidion, it feels utterly useless. lack of armor is fine balance wise, but that combined with the 4 engines being afar from each other can makes the enginners' life a hell.
against : can't say much. If some managed to blast your engines/baloon you're in for a long agony. Its an interesting foe anyway, the polar opposite of a galleon.

About the squid, I think the steering/armor is fine on itself. The engines positions are annoying for repairs and since speed is the weapon of the squid it's a relatively annoying issue. What I would appreciate most would be weapons arcs that cross a bit more. Like the front/side or back/side combos being available more often.