Author Topic: Captineering  (Read 46132 times)

Offline Helmic

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Re: Captineering
« Reply #30 on: April 24, 2013, 01:58:49 am »
No matter how skilled your engineer is, they can't beat math.  If they're here repairing your hull, they're not repairing something else, they're not on a gun shooting.  They will never outrepair a pair of enemy gunners of average skill without some sort of assistance.  If you can take some of that pressure off of them, give them one less thing to repair so that they can spend their very limited time on something else, that's good.  Taking the top deck gun on a sniping Galleon means your engineer can continue hull repairs and make small turns to keep everyone in arc, providing a HUGE DPS and repair advantage over an enemy whose captain sits on the helm fiddling in his trouser.  Repairing a balloon that's near the helm means the engineer won't have to wander away from the hull and get surprised by a sudden barrage.

It's just a fine line between trying to be useful to your engineers and insinuating you don't trust them to do their jobs.  I refuse to get on ships with engineer captains, whether that be their role or their attitude.  Steer the ship, man the guns, trust me to do my job.  It's infuriating to get bitched at about the hull not being up, seeing the gunners and captain all huddle around it, and then exploding when the enemy continues shooting because we're moving in a straight line and not firing any guns.

And then getting the blame.

Offline Machiavelliest

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Re: Captineering
« Reply #31 on: April 24, 2013, 09:18:27 am »
This is why I bring a spanner as a pilot.  If it's bad enough my help is needed, it'll be rebuilding something, probably an engine.  Mostly, my focus should be on putting us in a place where we're not taking damage anymore, or where we can at least return fire.

Offline TukketTaco

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Re: Captineering
« Reply #32 on: April 24, 2013, 09:09:11 pm »
While I see this as all constructive criticism, I'm just clarifying that I don't always captineer, only when I feel it's needed, but seeing all the other ways you all do things does help me make choices on what I should be doing. I thank y'all for that :)

Offline -Muse- Cullen

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Re: Captineering
« Reply #33 on: April 25, 2013, 01:18:49 am »
Why? I've just never found anything stronger than the other ships with it. It has two front-guns, which is between pyra and galleon, it's not particularly speedy, and it can't take a battering.
If you still think the Spire has some tactile edge over others in close quarters, let us know what specifically makes it superior over any other ship.

It can't take a beating, and it isn't very speedy. That is true.

However, I use the spire as a weapons platform instead of a chaser- get into a good position, and then open up. If a ship wants to ram, chute or hydrogen will usually avoid the hit. If a ship tries to keep broadsides, or simply linger at a distance with forward guns, the main gun on the Spire can disable them quickly with help from the phoenix claw. In a situation like that, it seldom matters how much health the actual ship has- once a ship's guns are down, its effectiveness has temporarily decreased, and the winner of that first volley will gain the advantage. These things can be generalized to any of the other ships in the game, though, so...

To specifically answer your question, Helmic, about tactical advantage in close quarters:
It has a short profile, but a long draft. This makes turning very easy in close quarters, but harder to follow through holes in debris.
Its fast turning speed will mean that its medium gun will (nearly) always be within arc for firing. In closer range, it is easy for ships to pass each other, and this turning speed is necessary.
At closer ranges, the Hwacha and Double Carronade are at effective range. Usually, I take the Hwacha and have that shooter take burst rounds to help disable, and because heavy clip isn't as required once we're close.

The Galleon turns too slow in close quarters, and the Goldfish's lack of an extra front gun make it less effective(Unless its a blenderfish, I guess). I believe that this ship has a higher potential DPS with its medium gun than the other ships because of this. This is also up for argument, though, but at least that's my reasoning behind it.

The Galleon, while it has more firepower and tanky sheets of armor, it is slow, and it takes more time to change position than the Spire. In wide open spaces, the Galleon is better. However, in places where maneuverability is more important, having a mobile medium/light gun combo will be more effective.

While the Pyra has two front light guns and heavy armor, it relies on constant pressure from both guns, and occasional ramming. Once again, taking out the front guns will cripple its attack power. Two light guns vs a light gun and a medium gun comes down to who shoots first and who's more accurate, but, if both weapons attack at the same time, I'd assume that the heavier firepower would win.

Offline TukketTaco

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Re: Captineering
« Reply #34 on: April 25, 2013, 02:49:26 am »
Why? I've just never found anything stronger than the other ships with it. It has two front-guns, which is between pyra and galleon, it's not particularly speedy, and it can't take a battering.
If you still think the Spire has some tactile edge over others in close quarters, let us know what specifically makes it superior over any other ship.

It can't take a beating, and it isn't very speedy. That is true.

However, I use the spire as a weapons platform instead of a chaser- get into a good position, and then open up. If a ship wants to ram, chute or hydrogen will usually avoid the hit. If a ship tries to keep broadsides, or simply linger at a distance with forward guns, the main gun on the Spire can disable them quickly with help from the phoenix claw. In a situation like that, it seldom matters how much health the actual ship has- once a ship's guns are down, its effectiveness has temporarily decreased, and the winner of that first volley will gain the advantage. These things can be generalized to any of the other ships in the game, though, so...

To specifically answer your question, Helmic, about tactical advantage in close quarters:
It has a short profile, but a long draft. This makes turning very easy in close quarters, but harder to follow through holes in debris.
Its fast turning speed will mean that its medium gun will (nearly) always be within arc for firing. In closer range, it is easy for ships to pass each other, and this turning speed is necessary.
At closer ranges, the Hwacha and Double Carronade are at effective range. Usually, I take the Hwacha and have that shooter take burst rounds to help disable, and because heavy clip isn't as required once we're close.

The Galleon turns too slow in close quarters, and the Goldfish's lack of an extra front gun make it less effective(Unless its a blenderfish, I guess). I believe that this ship has a higher potential DPS with its medium gun than the other ships because of this. This is also up for argument, though, but at least that's my reasoning behind it.

The Galleon, while it has more firepower and tanky sheets of armor, it is slow, and it takes more time to change position than the Spire. In wide open spaces, the Galleon is better. However, in places where maneuverability is more important, having a mobile medium/light gun combo will be more effective.

While the Pyra has two front light guns and heavy armor, it relies on constant pressure from both guns, and occasional ramming. Once again, taking out the front guns will cripple its attack power. Two light guns vs a light gun and a medium gun comes down to who shoots first and who's more accurate, but, if both weapons attack at the same time, I'd assume that the heavier firepower would win.

That just got you a Salute. Good day.

Offline Keon

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Re: Captineering
« Reply #35 on: April 25, 2013, 11:34:34 am »
Spire just got a lot more effective. Now we have a total of 3 guns pointing forward if you do it right, and one is a heavy weapon. Now this feels like a true glass cannon. I am much happier.

Offline -Muse- Cullen

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Re: Captineering
« Reply #36 on: April 25, 2013, 02:26:22 pm »
Spire just got a lot more effective. Now we have a total of 3 guns pointing forward if you do it right, and one is a heavy weapon.

Oh man. I think that altered gun arc is going to make the Spire more dangerous to fly on. The engineer on the hull is going to float between shooting and firing, so that extra gun might not be used beyond the first volley. At least the option is available, eh? Now it will truly feel like a glass cannon- get someone on repairs, or fight to disable the other ship quicker.

Offline Pickle

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Re: Captineering
« Reply #37 on: April 25, 2013, 02:38:18 pm »
An extra 45-degrees of blind spot for us Spire-hunters to exploit.. .. ;)

Offline RearAdmiralZill

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Re: Captineering
« Reply #38 on: April 25, 2013, 02:42:03 pm »
Spire just got a lot more effective. Now we have a total of 3 guns pointing forward if you do it right, and one is a heavy weapon.

Oh man. I think that altered gun arc is going to make the Spire more dangerous to fly on. The engineer on the hull is going to float between shooting and firing, so that extra gun might not be used beyond the first volley. At least the option is available, eh? Now it will truly feel like a glass cannon- get someone on repairs, or fight to disable the other ship quicker.

The gun that was turned is on top, not bottom, so I'm not sure how it changes the lower engie's role at all. I do agree though that I enjoy the more cannon and not less glass approach they went for.

Offline HamsterIV

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Re: Captineering
« Reply #39 on: April 25, 2013, 03:38:04 pm »
Two light guns vs a light gun and a medium gun comes down to who shoots first and who's more accurate, but, if both weapons attack at the same time, I'd assume that the heavier firepower would win.

I agree with most of Cul's points on the Spire except for this one. A if Spire/Pyra battle comes down a slugging match the Pyra pilot is not doing their job right. The light guns of a Pyra almost always have more swivel than that of a Spire. This doesn't matter much on the horizontal since the spire can turn so fast, but on the vertical the Pyra can eak out an advantage. Also since the spire is so tall the Pyra can go even lower or higher than than it does when trying to win the fire arc battle against a Goldfish. If every battle came down to raw fire power the Galleon would emerge on top every time. Thankfully things like pilot skill and weapon arcs also play a roll.

Offline N-Sunderland

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Re: Captineering
« Reply #40 on: April 25, 2013, 03:46:14 pm »
Spire just got a lot more effective. Now we have a total of 3 guns pointing forward if you do it right, and one is a heavy weapon.

Oh man. I think that altered gun arc is going to make the Spire more dangerous to fly on. The engineer on the hull is going to float between shooting and firing, so that extra gun might not be used beyond the first volley. At least the option is available, eh? Now it will truly feel like a glass cannon- get someone on repairs, or fight to disable the other ship quicker.

The gun that was turned is on top, not bottom, so I'm not sure how it changes the lower engie's role at all. I do agree though that I enjoy the more cannon and not less glass approach they went for.

Yeah, I tried using the top right gun as the main engi yesterday, and while it added loads of firepower, we also died way more often from the time it took me to get down to the hull. Maybe the captain can try using it against stationary ships?

Offline RearAdmiralZill

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Re: Captineering
« Reply #41 on: April 25, 2013, 03:50:13 pm »
I always got the boat straight, determined if they were running, charging, staying at range, ect, set the throttle accordingly, and manned my gun as pilot. Worked well enough for me.

Offline HamsterIV

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Re: Captineering
« Reply #42 on: April 25, 2013, 06:00:38 pm »
Zill do you use moonshine to cancel out residual turn before ghost piloting?

Offline RearAdmiralZill

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Re: Captineering
« Reply #43 on: April 25, 2013, 06:11:41 pm »
While that's a novel idea, I did not. It's not as hard to keep steady in 1.2 physics. I used my gun arc limits to gauge where the boat was facing. Wasn't always perfect but it was my first night of spire practice.

Offline TukketTaco

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Re: Captineering
« Reply #44 on: April 25, 2013, 07:54:49 pm »
While that's a novel idea, I did not. It's not as hard to keep steady in 1.2 physics. I used my gun arc limits to gauge where the boat was facing. Wasn't always perfect but it was my first night of spire practice.
And when I flew with you, you were doing well. I think you should be able to perfect it within time