Guns Of Icarus Online
Main => Gameplay => Topic started by: TukketTaco on April 22, 2013, 01:11:53 am
-
Hello all! I will be starting a rather unorthodox way of playing, and will probably get shunned for doing so, BUT! My style of playing is by captaining with the engi class. I do this in case there are emergencies and everyone is gunning. Jus thought I'd share my strategy, adios.
-
I applaud your choice and your bravery, along with your acknowledgement that you will receive a great deal of flak for it.
I hope to see you on the field of battle so I can out run, turn, then tar you >:)
Well wishes, and good luck!
-
Well, this is sort of viable on a Junker. If the Captain carefully positions the ship into Trifecta, holds her steady, and the opponent isn't moving too much, they can take over main engineering while keeping 3 guns working. It's so situational I'm not sure it's worth losing the mobility but it's worth trying I suppose.
Otherwise, you're usually better off using captains tools to dodge kill shots than assisting in rebuilding the hull. A dodge is more useful than a rebuild.
-
Hello all! I will be starting a rather unorthodox way of playing, and will probably get shunned for doing so, BUT! My style of playing is by captaining with the engi class. I do this in case there are emergencies and everyone is gunning. Jus thought I'd share my strategy, adios.
Well you will get Pilots joining expecting to fly. You'll just have to tell them what your doing and to switch
-
You know, I should mention; if you're helping out in an emergency situation, the only tool you'll likely need to bring to assist your engineers is a spanner. A pilot can still field a spanner as his repair tool and say, fix the balloon or assist in hull or engine rebuild.
-
Picking something unconventional and just running with it isn't really a style. If there's a real benefit to that unconventional method over what's commonly used then it's worth trying, but you can't fly your ship backwards all the time and expect victory. You have to keep in mind your crew probably wants to win as well, it's a bit disrespectful to deny them that for the sake of novelty.
Whether or not you deserve that flak you speak of is simply a matter of results. Win with it, and you're justified. Lose with it, and you deserve your crew's ire. If you're not confident about your unorthodox playstyle, at least check to see if your team is fine with experimenting with it.
That said, I can see some situations where an engineer would be more useful than a pilot, such as on a sniping galleon. There's little need to move and it's best if all three guns are blaring. The same can be said for a Spire, that takes pressure off of your top engineer. What I find myself doing, however, is just gun in my engineer's place. I'll take charged rounds and just take over the gun while my engineer continues repairs. You're almost always going to have at least one engineer on board, and if you can simply take his place at a gun you don't have to sacrifice the much more generally useful pilot tools.
-
As a traditional pilot-captain, I would find it incredibly obnoxious to be your teammate and have to coordinate through an engineer to a pilot, and have dealt with those difficulties before. That said, if you are an engineer class and still flying the ship, I can see that working just fine.
-
If you are taking enough damage where you must hop off the wheel to help repair all the time then you probably aren't using your captains tools properly to begin with. You don't want to get in the habit of this as captains which make full use of all their tricks and tools will quickly overwhelm any amount of repairs that you can do.
Captains need to be able to help with light repairs and rebuilds on some ships (mostly ones with close balloons) but ultimately they need to be watching the battle and doing what they can to help the ship and crew survive. I'd spend some time in practice gaining good mastery of the pilots tools and you'll quickly find yourself a better competitor.
-
As above - being a flygineer as Captain might work, but being Captain as Engineer with another member of the crew as Pilot would be awkward for team coordination on the C channel. I agree with Smollett, there's a time for coming off the wheel and helping fix (usually when you've no engines and no ability to get way on and manoeuvre) and at that point a spanner is sufficient. You're sacrificing a lot of options by not having three Pilot tools if you're on the helm. Most matches I will use every Pilot tool I've brought at some point, usually wishing I had at least one more available, and I might need to use a spanner to help my Engineers one match in three.
Try it and see what happens. And try different ship-loadout combinations with it as well.
-
I go pilot class and just run around things and hit them with a mallet because I've already set up my trajectory to move me where I want to go. Works best on the the Pyra and Goldfish where I can whack the hull easily. Works alright on the Galleon too.
-
Good hint--no spyglass as pilot.
-
Good hint--no spyglass as pilot.
I protest that statement.
-
I expect my gunners to spyglass their targets after they fire, in time to make the proper ammo type reload. This is why Charon is my gunner.
-
I have tried piloting as an engineer class from the deck of a Galleon. It didn't go well, but that may have has some thing to do with the caliber of opponent I was facing. Most new pilots don't use their piloting tools, so I can see why you might want to take different tools to be more useful on your ship.
Think about your strategy like this if you can reliably leave the helm and keep your guns on target, you have gained an extra engineer for free. However if your guns go off target while you are off the helm fixing stuff, you have lost one possibly two gunners to gain one engineer. Now think about the situations where these conditions might arise. If you can keep your guns on target while off the helm the enemy must be pretty far away. Maybe it is a sniping battle, so while the extra engineer is useful your current engineers aren't being overwhelmed. The other situation is that you are at close quarters. Here your engineers are getting overwhelmed by the damage and could use the extra help. Unfortunately if you leave the helm to go help there is a good chance your opponent will dance to your blind side. It is impossible to win a slugging match if you can't punch the other guy.
Flying while in the engineer class isn't wrong, but in many situations the costs outweigh the gains.
-
I expect my gunners to spyglass their targets after they fire, in time to make the proper ammo type reload. This is why Charon is my gunner.
I expect my gunner to be on the gun, ready to fire as soon as they or I see a ship, spotted or otherwise. This is why Yiski is my gunner.
-
I expect my gunners to withstand a truck load of verbal abuse when they miss easy shots, that is why random pug players are usually my gunners.
-
Oh Hamster, you used to be so nice. It's funny seeing the transformation.
Anyway, before I derail this any more......
-
I usually stick as pilot when I fly on a Spire, but I do occasionally pull double duty by repairing the balloon or shooting the front gun when the need arises. A few times, I've had my usual top engineer help repair the main gun while the other one remains on the hull. However, I've only done this when I didn't need to turn my ship. The niche application of an extra gunner or repairer at the loss of only moving forward or backward is small.
-
I expect my gunners to spyglass their targets after they fire, in time to make the proper ammo type reload. This is why Charon is my gunner.
I expect my gunner to be on the gun, ready to fire as soon as they or I see a ship, spotted or otherwise. This is why Yiski is my gunner.
But does your gunner spot the ship generally?
-
I expect my gunners to spyglass their targets after they fire, in time to make the proper ammo type reload. This is why Charon is my gunner.
I expect my gunner to be on the gun, ready to fire as soon as they or I see a ship, spotted or otherwise. This is why Yiski is my gunner.
But does your gunner spot the ship generally?
I or my engies do. He normally calls out the direction on the compass which I then use to aim the boat/spot if we haven't already seen them.
-
To get on the OP's topic, I can't justify going engie while piloting. This is even coming from a guy who takes spyglass as a pilot, which people seem to think is useless (Different thread on that). Positioning is everything in this game, and as pilot, it's one of your jobs to give yourself the most advantageous position you can. As such, 99.9% of your time should be on the helm, not running around to nearby parts to repair them. The one tool you can bring will help in live-or-die situations. I think the Spire is the only boat I'd remotely consider not taking a pilot, and that's still hit or miss.
-
A spire is only effective in sniping matches. If you had a gunner on your medium, a engineer camping hull, then it's either loose the top gun or loose your buffineer, which is pretty much the only way I stay alive. As a captain of a spire, I will hop off the helm if I need to, but I will keep the captains tools.
Actually, if you as an engineer took, say moonshine, and your friend the buffineer took hydrogen or something, hypothetically you could match Zill's effectiveness on a spire. Or at least his tools. Nerf Zill.
-
A spire is only effective in sniping matches.
Up for argument- definitely my favorite ship, and I've won plenty of matches that aren't for sniping
-
A spire is only effective in sniping matches.
Up for argument- definitely my favorite ship, and I've won plenty of matches that aren't for sniping
Why? I've just never found anything stronger than the other ships with it. It has two front-guns, which is between pyra and galleon, it's not particularly speedy, and it can't take a battering.
-
I'll have to agree with Keon here. Just because you personally have won with a ship doesn't mean it's strong. There's plenty of other factors at work, such as your ability to communicate with your own team, map knowledge, and piloting ability. If your team is just more skilled than the other, it's perfectly possible you could win with any combination of ships and guns.
If you still think the Spire has some tactile edge over others in close quarters, let us know what specifically makes it superior over any other ship.
-
It has the turning speed over any other boat. This gives it the edge in getting first shot in a knife fight. I'm not saying its ideal at all to take a Spire into a knife fight, but that is the tactical advantage it has.
It's kinda funny to think about the fact that if you aren't just disabling its main gun and shooting it to pieces, the Spire will happily kill you depending on its build.
-
If a Spire is facing you, with guns intact it's a dangerous foe. But it's main armament is amongst the easiest to disable of any 'ship, and if you're to the rear or either side you've much less to worry about. Combined with the fragile hull, it's usually designated "priority squishy" for a quick point on the board. But a pair of Spires working together always seems far harder to deal with than a Spire with any other supporting 'ship. I'm not sure why that is - I've never liked piloting or crewing a Spire.
-
It has the turning speed over any other boat. This gives it the edge in getting first shot in a knife fight. I'm not saying its ideal at all to take a Spire into a knife fight, but that is the tactical advantage it has.
It's kinda funny to think about the fact that if you aren't just disabling its main gun and shooting it to pieces, the Spire will happily kill you depending on its build.
Its backing speed is also a concern. I tried closing on a backing spire with a Pyramidion to get inside of flak range. Without Shine, it's a fool's errand. With turning, the Spire wins a merged dogfight any time, even without Phoenix Claw. If you are able to shake the greenhorn tendency to always try to close the distance on an enemy, Spires can be a very dangerous tool, especially when marginalized in a match.
But, as the balloon is right there, I generally still go as a pilot, because as long as I bring a spanner, I can fix whatever's broken pretty quick. Plus, since they're so close, I can still keep the ship moving while doing so.
-
I started the game as an engineer and developed quite the engi fetish (Not even God could count the number of times I have told a third crew member to go engineer instead of gunner) So I get the whole desire to get off the guns. However, as was pointed out, losing arc on the enemy means losing your shooters just for a few more repairs.
I do fully endorse pilots doing some repair work. I probably do to too much myself.
-
I do fully endorse pilots doing some repair work. I probably do to too much myself.
I think this is the main pitfall. I started as an engineer, and I sometimes want to help too much. I usually draw the line at having lost engines, or both balloon and hull as to when it's time to abandon the helm to keep the ship alive. Don't forget to set the proper throttle before you do, though.
-
No matter how skilled your engineer is, they can't beat math. If they're here repairing your hull, they're not repairing something else, they're not on a gun shooting. They will never outrepair a pair of enemy gunners of average skill without some sort of assistance. If you can take some of that pressure off of them, give them one less thing to repair so that they can spend their very limited time on something else, that's good. Taking the top deck gun on a sniping Galleon means your engineer can continue hull repairs and make small turns to keep everyone in arc, providing a HUGE DPS and repair advantage over an enemy whose captain sits on the helm fiddling in his trouser. Repairing a balloon that's near the helm means the engineer won't have to wander away from the hull and get surprised by a sudden barrage.
It's just a fine line between trying to be useful to your engineers and insinuating you don't trust them to do their jobs. I refuse to get on ships with engineer captains, whether that be their role or their attitude. Steer the ship, man the guns, trust me to do my job. It's infuriating to get bitched at about the hull not being up, seeing the gunners and captain all huddle around it, and then exploding when the enemy continues shooting because we're moving in a straight line and not firing any guns.
And then getting the blame.
-
This is why I bring a spanner as a pilot. If it's bad enough my help is needed, it'll be rebuilding something, probably an engine. Mostly, my focus should be on putting us in a place where we're not taking damage anymore, or where we can at least return fire.
-
While I see this as all constructive criticism, I'm just clarifying that I don't always captineer, only when I feel it's needed, but seeing all the other ways you all do things does help me make choices on what I should be doing. I thank y'all for that :)
-
Why? I've just never found anything stronger than the other ships with it. It has two front-guns, which is between pyra and galleon, it's not particularly speedy, and it can't take a battering.
If you still think the Spire has some tactile edge over others in close quarters, let us know what specifically makes it superior over any other ship.
It can't take a beating, and it isn't very speedy. That is true.
However, I use the spire as a weapons platform instead of a chaser- get into a good position, and then open up. If a ship wants to ram, chute or hydrogen will usually avoid the hit. If a ship tries to keep broadsides, or simply linger at a distance with forward guns, the main gun on the Spire can disable them quickly with help from the phoenix claw. In a situation like that, it seldom matters how much health the actual ship has- once a ship's guns are down, its effectiveness has temporarily decreased, and the winner of that first volley will gain the advantage. These things can be generalized to any of the other ships in the game, though, so...
To specifically answer your question, Helmic, about tactical advantage in close quarters:
It has a short profile, but a long draft. This makes turning very easy in close quarters, but harder to follow through holes in debris.
Its fast turning speed will mean that its medium gun will (nearly) always be within arc for firing. In closer range, it is easy for ships to pass each other, and this turning speed is necessary.
At closer ranges, the Hwacha and Double Carronade are at effective range. Usually, I take the Hwacha and have that shooter take burst rounds to help disable, and because heavy clip isn't as required once we're close.
The Galleon turns too slow in close quarters, and the Goldfish's lack of an extra front gun make it less effective(Unless its a blenderfish, I guess). I believe that this ship has a higher potential DPS with its medium gun than the other ships because of this. This is also up for argument, though, but at least that's my reasoning behind it.
The Galleon, while it has more firepower and tanky sheets of armor, it is slow, and it takes more time to change position than the Spire. In wide open spaces, the Galleon is better. However, in places where maneuverability is more important, having a mobile medium/light gun combo will be more effective.
While the Pyra has two front light guns and heavy armor, it relies on constant pressure from both guns, and occasional ramming. Once again, taking out the front guns will cripple its attack power. Two light guns vs a light gun and a medium gun comes down to who shoots first and who's more accurate, but, if both weapons attack at the same time, I'd assume that the heavier firepower would win.
-
Why? I've just never found anything stronger than the other ships with it. It has two front-guns, which is between pyra and galleon, it's not particularly speedy, and it can't take a battering.
If you still think the Spire has some tactile edge over others in close quarters, let us know what specifically makes it superior over any other ship.
It can't take a beating, and it isn't very speedy. That is true.
However, I use the spire as a weapons platform instead of a chaser- get into a good position, and then open up. If a ship wants to ram, chute or hydrogen will usually avoid the hit. If a ship tries to keep broadsides, or simply linger at a distance with forward guns, the main gun on the Spire can disable them quickly with help from the phoenix claw. In a situation like that, it seldom matters how much health the actual ship has- once a ship's guns are down, its effectiveness has temporarily decreased, and the winner of that first volley will gain the advantage. These things can be generalized to any of the other ships in the game, though, so...
To specifically answer your question, Helmic, about tactical advantage in close quarters:
It has a short profile, but a long draft. This makes turning very easy in close quarters, but harder to follow through holes in debris.
Its fast turning speed will mean that its medium gun will (nearly) always be within arc for firing. In closer range, it is easy for ships to pass each other, and this turning speed is necessary.
At closer ranges, the Hwacha and Double Carronade are at effective range. Usually, I take the Hwacha and have that shooter take burst rounds to help disable, and because heavy clip isn't as required once we're close.
The Galleon turns too slow in close quarters, and the Goldfish's lack of an extra front gun make it less effective(Unless its a blenderfish, I guess). I believe that this ship has a higher potential DPS with its medium gun than the other ships because of this. This is also up for argument, though, but at least that's my reasoning behind it.
The Galleon, while it has more firepower and tanky sheets of armor, it is slow, and it takes more time to change position than the Spire. In wide open spaces, the Galleon is better. However, in places where maneuverability is more important, having a mobile medium/light gun combo will be more effective.
While the Pyra has two front light guns and heavy armor, it relies on constant pressure from both guns, and occasional ramming. Once again, taking out the front guns will cripple its attack power. Two light guns vs a light gun and a medium gun comes down to who shoots first and who's more accurate, but, if both weapons attack at the same time, I'd assume that the heavier firepower would win.
That just got you a Salute. Good day.
-
Spire just got a lot more effective. Now we have a total of 3 guns pointing forward if you do it right, and one is a heavy weapon. Now this feels like a true glass cannon. I am much happier.
-
Spire just got a lot more effective. Now we have a total of 3 guns pointing forward if you do it right, and one is a heavy weapon.
Oh man. I think that altered gun arc is going to make the Spire more dangerous to fly on. The engineer on the hull is going to float between shooting and firing, so that extra gun might not be used beyond the first volley. At least the option is available, eh? Now it will truly feel like a glass cannon- get someone on repairs, or fight to disable the other ship quicker.
-
An extra 45-degrees of blind spot for us Spire-hunters to exploit.. .. ;)
-
Spire just got a lot more effective. Now we have a total of 3 guns pointing forward if you do it right, and one is a heavy weapon.
Oh man. I think that altered gun arc is going to make the Spire more dangerous to fly on. The engineer on the hull is going to float between shooting and firing, so that extra gun might not be used beyond the first volley. At least the option is available, eh? Now it will truly feel like a glass cannon- get someone on repairs, or fight to disable the other ship quicker.
The gun that was turned is on top, not bottom, so I'm not sure how it changes the lower engie's role at all. I do agree though that I enjoy the more cannon and not less glass approach they went for.
-
Two light guns vs a light gun and a medium gun comes down to who shoots first and who's more accurate, but, if both weapons attack at the same time, I'd assume that the heavier firepower would win.
I agree with most of Cul's points on the Spire except for this one. A if Spire/Pyra battle comes down a slugging match the Pyra pilot is not doing their job right. The light guns of a Pyra almost always have more swivel than that of a Spire. This doesn't matter much on the horizontal since the spire can turn so fast, but on the vertical the Pyra can eak out an advantage. Also since the spire is so tall the Pyra can go even lower or higher than than it does when trying to win the fire arc battle against a Goldfish. If every battle came down to raw fire power the Galleon would emerge on top every time. Thankfully things like pilot skill and weapon arcs also play a roll.
-
Spire just got a lot more effective. Now we have a total of 3 guns pointing forward if you do it right, and one is a heavy weapon.
Oh man. I think that altered gun arc is going to make the Spire more dangerous to fly on. The engineer on the hull is going to float between shooting and firing, so that extra gun might not be used beyond the first volley. At least the option is available, eh? Now it will truly feel like a glass cannon- get someone on repairs, or fight to disable the other ship quicker.
The gun that was turned is on top, not bottom, so I'm not sure how it changes the lower engie's role at all. I do agree though that I enjoy the more cannon and not less glass approach they went for.
Yeah, I tried using the top right gun as the main engi yesterday, and while it added loads of firepower, we also died way more often from the time it took me to get down to the hull. Maybe the captain can try using it against stationary ships?
-
I always got the boat straight, determined if they were running, charging, staying at range, ect, set the throttle accordingly, and manned my gun as pilot. Worked well enough for me.
-
Zill do you use moonshine to cancel out residual turn before ghost piloting?
-
While that's a novel idea, I did not. It's not as hard to keep steady in 1.2 physics. I used my gun arc limits to gauge where the boat was facing. Wasn't always perfect but it was my first night of spire practice.
-
While that's a novel idea, I did not. It's not as hard to keep steady in 1.2 physics. I used my gun arc limits to gauge where the boat was facing. Wasn't always perfect but it was my first night of spire practice.
And when I flew with you, you were doing well. I think you should be able to perfect it within time
-
With what we know about Spires, it makes sense that the right gun is the captains gun since you really can't neglect the hull even for a moment. At medium range I had no problem planting my spire or throwing it in reverse and laying shot after shot into the enemy. You can make some really nasty builds if you think of all the double light heavy weapon combos available. I've only begun scheming, Polaris are probably way ahead of everyone and I know Howard has been getting ready for this for Months.
-
If the captain leaves to fix stuff chances are your gonna die any way
-
If the captain leaves to fix stuff chances are your gonna die any way
Nah it's OK MasX... you'll get that last minute Pilot join to back you up should you have to fix something :P
-
If the captain leaves to fix stuff chances are your gonna die any way
Nah it's OK MasX... you'll get that last minute Pilot join to back you up should you have to fix something :P
Agreed. Clever use of 'pulling the goalie', so to speak, can tip the scales in one's favor.