Author Topic: The Current Meta.  (Read 10147 times)

Offline Kamoba

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Re: The Current Meta.
« Reply #30 on: September 11, 2015, 06:19:37 am »
Just like the flamethrower, and the mino, and the everything. Hwacha nerf will come when low levels complain enough to be pandered to.

Hwacha Nerf will come.
Though not a big Nerf, it will come.
I predict Goldfish will barely be used again. If they are it'll be good pilots and crews doing flak fish or blenderfish.

Squids will be more efficient with less fish to contest them.

Mobula and spires shall become powerful.

But the Hwacha will be no less effective, it'll just.be a.minor Nerf.but people will avoid it if.its not a goto all purpose weapon.

Offline Fynx

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Re: The Current Meta.
« Reply #31 on: September 11, 2015, 06:40:05 am »
Squids will be more efficient with less fish to contest them.
I have no idea why everyone thinks that bringing fish into a match with a squid on the other side is an automagic win...

Mobula and spires shall become powerful.
Mobula OP. Give me big SCS without mobula, we'll actually see different playstyles for once more.
Hwachaspire kills so fast it's a fully legal competitive ship, no thralls' magic required.
Lumberspire benefits a lot from stamina, it can actually dodge and kill.
And carro spire was the scariest of them all, but it's completely useless now, thank you heavy carro arcs.

But the Hwacha will be no less effective, it'll just.be a.minor Nerf.but people will avoid it if.its not a goto all purpose weapon.
Hwachafish was used rarely before. Right now it's considered all purpose meta. Still, it doesn't have natural fast killing potential.
In my opinion nerfing the jitter back to what used to be before the heavy clip nerf would be enough to unmeta this ship.

Offline Kamoba

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Re: The Current Meta.
« Reply #32 on: September 11, 2015, 07:01:09 am »
Squids will be more efficient with less fish to contest them.
I have no idea why everyone thinks that bringing fish into a match with a squid on the other side is an automagic win...
Not an automatic win at all, but it is able to put up a fight :)


And I agree about the jitter, nothing big, just enough to make a difference. :)

Offline Thomas

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Re: The Current Meta.
« Reply #33 on: September 11, 2015, 02:01:19 pm »
I don't know about the hwacha-fish not being used before, it was always decently popular as a disable ship, particularly against pyramidions. Mobula and spire are already powerful. Mobula in particular is a good choice against hwacha fish, since it's very difficult to break all the components in a hwacha burst (unless you have a great gunner/pilot combo). Spire is like a less maneuverable hwacha-fish, but hits a lot harder.

In competitive matches, squid might be fine, but in pub matches, trying to coordinate a crew on that fast moving ship is difficult, even if you do manage to dodge a lot of deadly shots. It's hard to stay in arcs long enough to be effective with how vulnerable the squid is, particularly against disables which you have to be certain to dodge.

Offline Kamoba

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Re: The Current Meta.
« Reply #34 on: September 11, 2015, 02:54:27 pm »
I don't know about the hwacha-fish not being used before, it was always decently popular as a disable ship, particularly against pyramidions. Mobula and spire are already powerful. Mobula in particular is a good choice against hwacha fish, since it's very difficult to break all the components in a hwacha burst (unless you have a great gunner/pilot combo). Spire is like a less maneuverable hwacha-fish, but hits a lot harder.

In competitive matches, squid might be fine, but in pub matches, trying to coordinate a crew on that fast moving ship is difficult, even if you do manage to dodge a lot of deadly shots. It's hard to stay in arcs long enough to be effective with how vulnerable the squid is, particularly against disables which you have to be certain to dodge.

From what I've seen the biggest problem with pub crews on a squid is the side Gungineer camping hull or doing repairs because they panic when something is damaged or broken, often leaving the ship with just one gun shooting. Or of using gat mortar I've seen many gubgineers waste clips onto thin air while gat breaks armour, they complain no arcs, armour break comes and they're reloading...
Squid in pubs only works Caro flamer or gat banshee unless you are lucky with crew

Offline MightyKeb

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Re: The Current Meta.
« Reply #35 on: September 11, 2015, 04:51:22 pm »
I don't know about the hwacha-fish not being used before, it was always decently popular as a disable ship, particularly against pyramidions. Mobula and spire are already powerful. Mobula in particular is a good choice against hwacha fish, since it's very difficult to break all the components in a hwacha burst (unless you have a great gunner/pilot combo). Spire is like a less maneuverable hwacha-fish, but hits a lot harder.

In competitive matches, squid might be fine, but in pub matches, trying to coordinate a crew on that fast moving ship is difficult, even if you do manage to dodge a lot of deadly shots. It's hard to stay in arcs long enough to be effective with how vulnerable the squid is, particularly against disables which you have to be certain to dodge.



From what I've seen the biggest problem with pub crews on a squid is the side Gungineer camping hull or doing repairs because they panic when something is damaged or broken, often leaving the ship with just one gun shooting. Or of using gat mortar I've seen many gubgineers waste clips onto thin air while gat breaks armour, they complain no arcs, armour break comes and they're reloading...
Squid in pubs only works Caro flamer or gat banshee unless you are lucky with crew


I disagree. Almost every squid loadout works in pubs. Infact, even the ones that aren't supposed to work do work in pubs.  You're describing instances of novice crewing. You could put them on anything else but maybe a pyramidion and they would still cause problems.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2015, 04:58:00 pm by MightyKeb »

Offline Kamoba

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Re: The Current Meta.
« Reply #36 on: September 11, 2015, 07:28:54 pm »
I don't know about the hwacha-fish not being used before, it was always decently popular as a disable ship, particularly against pyramidions. Mobula and spire are already powerful. Mobula in particular is a good choice against hwacha fish, since it's very difficult to break all the components in a hwacha burst (unless you have a great gunner/pilot combo). Spire is like a less maneuverable hwacha-fish, but hits a lot harder.

In competitive matches, squid might be fine, but in pub matches, trying to coordinate a crew on that fast moving ship is difficult, even if you do manage to dodge a lot of deadly shots. It's hard to stay in arcs long enough to be effective with how vulnerable the squid is, particularly against disables which you have to be certain to dodge.



From what I've seen the biggest problem with pub crews on a squid is the side Gungineer camping hull or doing repairs because they panic when something is damaged or broken, often leaving the ship with just one gun shooting. Or of using gat mortar I've seen many gubgineers waste clips onto thin air while gat breaks armour, they complain no arcs, armour break comes and they're reloading...
Squid in pubs only works Caro flamer or gat banshee unless you are lucky with crew


I disagree. Almost every squid loadout works in pubs. Infact, even the ones that aren't supposed to work do work in pubs.  You're describing instances of novice crewing. You could put them on anything else but maybe a pyramidion and they would still cause problems.

Very true... Well even the pyramidion has the same problems, such as upper deck engi repairing hull instead of shooting...

Offline Byron Cavendish

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Re: The Current Meta.
« Reply #37 on: September 21, 2015, 03:58:01 pm »
Just like the flamethrower, and the mino, and the everything. Hwacha nerf will come when low levels complain enough to be pandered to.

Hwacha Nerf will come.
Though not a big Nerf, it will come.

You knock on wood right now! Dammit man, this Eric we are talking about! He doesn't do subtle.

Offline Spud Nick

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Re: The Current Meta.
« Reply #38 on: September 25, 2015, 10:29:32 am »
I am surprised to see that the spire is not used more in competitive play. A mino spire seems like it would be a great anti-counter to the sniper mob.

Offline ZnC

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Re: The Current Meta.
« Reply #39 on: September 25, 2015, 10:58:07 am »
I am surprised to see that the spire is not used more in competitive play. A mino spire seems like it would be a great anti-counter to the sniper mob.

On paper it would seem like it; in practice, one mercury shot and the Minotaur is out. As compared to the Minotaur, Lumberjack has better range, and stronger disable+kill power. I have hardly ever/never beaten a Mobula head on with a Spire, then again not many ships can beat the King of Control head on. The Hwachafish and Mobula meta has hurt the Spire, which is totally my favourite ship, more than I'd like.

Kill meta (Pyra, Blenderfish) gets nerfed, control meta will naturally be more effective, not to mention it has had a few buffs (i.e. Hwacha, stamina). However, I've always taught that the Mobula was always a strong ship. I didn't imagine a sniper ship to be surprizingly tanky (600 armor) and maneuverable (insane verticals, phoenix claw better than Galleon, Pyra, and Spire).

Offline BlackenedPies

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Re: The Current Meta.
« Reply #40 on: September 25, 2015, 11:07:44 am »
I wish, the problem is the Minotaur is too hard to shoot at long range due to the low projectile speed of 350 m/s. By the time the mino gunner gets centered the mob is already shooting hades artemis. Plus the spire will be focused down every opportunity.

It sure is annoying being hit by a taur in the wing of a mobula, but you have 9 seconds to position before it finishes reloading. The Minotaur is not balanced. Increase the speed to around 450 and decrease reload to 8 (like lumberjack). There's no reason it needs a longer reload than lumberjack or the projectile speed of light flak (unless it was buffed as a mid range role). 

Offline Daft Loon

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Re: The Current Meta.
« Reply #41 on: September 25, 2015, 06:29:50 pm »
Speed is not the only problem with the minotaur. It has 15m of scatter at 1000m when using heavy clip. If it had a more reasonable level of scatter lesmok would be an option but currently if you try that you get 15m scatter at 300m. By the time you get to the range you need to counter a mobula you're lucky if 2/5 of the buckshots land.

Offline Dementio

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Re: The Current Meta.
« Reply #42 on: September 26, 2015, 07:07:00 am »
Even before the nerf the Minotaur wasn't all that effective. After playing against a Metagalleon with a Minotaur instead of Flak on Waterhazard in comp, the Galleon pilot said he would have wanted a Heavy Flak. A Minotaur/Hades/Flak Spire in the same event on the same day was more troublesome, but we managed to ge early Artemis pressure on it and our Hades made sure that the Spire Hades was repairing the armor. We did have to retreat against it once though, but then our ally ramkilled it from behind. That match and the match afterwards ended with us spawnkilling them, because Minotaur is so annoying.

What I learned from that day was that the Minotaur shouldn't be used as a primary gun, no matter how good it is, it will never be good enough. But buffing it a little bit, including a faster projectile speed, wouldn't be all too bad, it would also mean that the projectiles have less time to scatter, causing less spread over distance, unless I am wrong about that one, but less reload would make it a killer in pub matches, since not all of them time the shots to minimize its effective by using Kerosene/Moonshine.

Although the Minotaur should be able to counter the long range stuff, on a Galleon it was very effective when it protected its ally in a more close ranged scenario.

Offline Daft Loon

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Re: The Current Meta.
« Reply #43 on: September 26, 2015, 09:30:54 am »
I think scatter is independent of projectile speed, the shots just travel sideways faster or slower as well as forwards.

I think Mino/Hades/Flak spire could work well with main kit engineer running the Minotaur and balloon repairs, same with Flak and armor and a gunner or buff engineer focused on the hades. What gun to put bottom left is hard to decide with the engineer needing heavy for the Minotaur. It would seem odd having an engineer running 2 guns one of them heavy while the gunner has just 1 light gun though.

Offline BlackenedPies

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Re: The Current Meta.
« Reply #44 on: September 26, 2015, 10:57:13 am »
The original Minotaur was an excellent disable weapon. With buff heavy clip you could one shot heavy guns. On spire it was good against spires, galleons, and fish. The ability to one shot heavy guns at extreme range was very powerful. It has since been nerfed to 292 component damage per shot or 350 buffed.

When using taur spire I keep the standard spire setup of main engi top, spanner mallet buff taur, wrench buff bottom left. You can try it in a brawl role with gat.