Author Topic: Cap mechanics are dumb  (Read 23612 times)

Offline Arturo Sanchez

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Cap mechanics are dumb
« on: February 26, 2015, 12:17:08 am »
It takes away from what makes CP a different mode.

The tactical tanking and defending of point.
The scouting of points of crazy king.
Being sneaky and clever by blocking points while unspotted to buy time for teammates.

The only thing needed was that kill giving points thing. That stops indefinite defending. But removing the blocking mechanic entirely?

To remove variety in tactics for a major dominant one is dumb. Literally makes a different and clever game mode, dumbed down to just another death match.

Just kill CP entirely and make those maps death match. Just be done with it.

Offline Squidslinger Gilder

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Re: Cap mechanics are dumb
« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2015, 12:20:43 am »
In agreement but only cause I think 450 caps are too low. The Aerodrome style kills for points is a nice change.

To be fair, you can block at times. Especially in 2v2 CP. 3v3 you'd need more enemy ships to leave. But with such low point caps, it just isn't really worth fighting over points anymore.

Offline Thomas

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Re: Cap mechanics are dumb
« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2015, 12:27:46 am »
I kind of like the changes, but I feel they made too many changes at the same time. Reducing the length of CPs was the old standard, and for some reason they did it again, AND added in a way to get CP points faster. Now CP matches end alarmingly fast.

I'd prefer they raise the point cap back up, OR go with Maximillian's idea of still being able to block CPs like the old times. Having all the changes happen at once puts CP in a weird spot. Was there testing days for these mechanics?

Offline DrTentacles

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Re: Cap mechanics are dumb
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2015, 12:31:06 am »
I think the reduction works well, as the new mechanics made it more "swingy." Sure, the time's been cut, but it's also very possible for the point to go back and forth multiple times.

Offline Arturo Sanchez

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Re: Cap mechanics are dumb
« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2015, 12:36:47 am »
I kind of like the changes, but I feel they made too many changes at the same time. Reducing the length of CPs was the old standard, and for some reason they did it again, AND added in a way to get CP points faster. Now CP matches end alarmingly fast.

I'd prefer they raise the point cap back up, OR go with Maximillian's idea of still being able to block CPs like the old times. Having all the changes happen at once puts CP in a weird spot. Was there testing days for these mechanics?

If there was I wasn't aware of it to test the hell out of it on dev app. No one was discussing it on the dev app forum either.

I think the reduction works well, as the new mechanics made it more "swingy." Sure, the time's been cut, but it's also very possible for the point to go back and forth multiple times.


thats what made crazy king EXCITING. it was a race to each new point. the first one there caps the point at minimum cap speed, but as the first one there you delay your opponent if they wish to contest.


and in high lvl play you have scout battles as they fight for the right to cap first.


Theres plenty of combat in the game (hence this kill points mechanics can diminish stalemates easily-plus it deters suicide exploits to respawn near next point)

As for king of the hill? You know what? Let king of the hill have it. And let crazy king be its own thing.

That way king of the hill and crazy king are no longer just rehashes of the same mode.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2015, 12:41:21 am by Maximillian Jazzhand »

Offline Thomas

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Re: Cap mechanics are dumb
« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2015, 01:34:57 am »
Separating crazy king mechanics from king of the hill mechanics seems like a really nice solution. I think the tug of war (whoever has more ships) for the point works a lot better on king of the hill; but the old system was still pretty terrible for crazy king. But with the point reduction and earning points for kills, it would be in a pretty good spot, even if you can block a point with a single ship.

Offline Kamoba

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Re: Cap mechanics are dumb
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2015, 01:56:39 am »
The point limit is certainly too low.
This I have discussed with muse after finishing a series of games in Labyrinth...
Timing each match, all low levels a match was done in 10 minutes
Other match times:
5 minutes, 7 minutes.

Anglean Raiders, 12 minutes.


The kill points yes great, the point limit lowered? Too low.
(But Muse are monitering match times.) so me and patched were thinking of just playing Death Match to push the 25 points till match finish :)


As for the mechanics, I still want to experiment more, but now it means everyone needs to hug the point, before you could afford one to hug the point, and the other to attack the enemy on approach.

Offline DJ Logicalia

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Re: Cap mechanics are dumb
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2015, 01:59:04 am »
I miss old CP

Offline Squidslinger Gilder

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Re: Cap mechanics are dumb
« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2015, 02:36:06 am »
Honestly don't know if CP was tested that much in the weekend sessions. Or maybe I just wasn't in them. I know we tried a Labyrinth CP once when I was there but the map was bugged real bad. Weird walls popping out in the sky...heck it spawned my squid in one and you could actually run up into the air a little bit. Couldn't even get on the wheel. Got screens if you want a laugh.

I did hear others commenting on CK and saying they liked the changes where you could start retaking if you had majority on the point. But I didn't hear anything about the point cap being lower.

Offline BlackenedPies

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Re: Cap mechanics are dumb
« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2015, 07:54:09 am »
I miss blocking

Offline Kamoba

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Re: Cap mechanics are dumb
« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2015, 07:57:31 am »
Say good bye, to carried pub matches ;)

Offline Arturo Sanchez

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Re: Cap mechanics are dumb
« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2015, 08:19:46 am »
Say good bye, to carried pub matches ;)

Oh Yay, now my winning in crazy king with a scrub team goes from me v enemy team to gg why bother?

Thats dumb.

I did hear others commenting on CK and saying they liked the changes where you could start retaking if you had majority on the point. But I didn't hear anything about the point cap being lower.

The mechanic devalues the point of capturing. Why bother with it if its so easy to lose. Its not like capping gives you an instant 100 points.

In a crazy king match you leave 1 shup behind to hide near cap zone. To assure those points.


Thats not an exploit thats a TACTIC (which is wat I assume ppl whine about-which is as valid a complaint as removing flamethrower). A gambit at that as the next point is 2 v 3 if the team that does have current point go to the next point.

And by the time the defender ship leaves, its already time to get the point after that. There as an elaborate dance to it all (none that I rare utilised because most players are just too dumb to think beyond shoot the other ship dead).





It all comes down to an eventual ultimatum.

Is muse gonna dumb down the game to cater for noobs to play well and lose its vets (even more of them anyway)?
Or is muse going to challenge vets by catering for more diverse and dynamic gameplay and end up with a harsh learning curve?



Here's a genre of gaming that's very much "git gud"
Fighting games.


Does the community or even CAPCOM babysit noobs? No. But they definitely do help those that genuinely want to get good at the genre. There are challenges in the games, tutorials, forums, competitions, a very distinct culture.

Same with dota, rts, racing, rhythm games .
« Last Edit: February 26, 2015, 08:36:09 am by Maximillian Jazzhand »

Offline MightyKeb

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Re: Cap mechanics are dumb
« Reply #12 on: February 26, 2015, 08:24:04 am »
Say good bye, to carried pub matches ;)

Oh Yay, now my winning in crazy king with a scrub team goes from me v enemy team to gg why bother?

Thats dumb.

oh no, a team based game is even more team based now! How dumb right?!

Offline Arturo Sanchez

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Re: Cap mechanics are dumb
« Reply #13 on: February 26, 2015, 08:38:24 am »
Say good bye, to carried pub matches ;)

Oh Yay, now my winning in crazy king with a scrub team goes from me v enemy team to gg why bother?

Thats dumb.

oh no, a team based game is even more team based now! How dumb right?!

Have fun trying to play this without that stacked crew form. Really narrow-minded if you think that line isn't seething in ignorance of practicality.

Offline MightyKeb

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Re: Cap mechanics are dumb
« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2015, 08:49:56 am »
Say good bye, to carried pub matches ;)

Oh Yay, now my winning in crazy king with a scrub team goes from me v enemy team to gg why bother?

Thats dumb.

oh no, a team based game is even more team based now! How dumb right?!

Have fun trying to play this without that stacked crew form. Really narrow-minded if you think that line isn't seething in ignorance of practicality.
If youre talking about the fact that its difficult to work with your allies because they dont listen even when you reach out to them (if you ever do) Thats a common problem in pubs and the enemy team has the same odds. And when you have foreign allies playing ck for the first time while the other team is collectively trying hard? Then they deserve it, not some level 40 dude flying a blenderfish soloimg his way to victory. If your team is bad you will lose and if you dont against a competent team then something is wrong with this game, period.