Author Topic: Spire Changes?  (Read 25516 times)

Offline Dementio

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Spire Changes?
« on: June 30, 2014, 09:11:11 pm »
The Spire is the glass cannon in this game with the most firepower, but at the same time, the easiest to kill ship. It turns rather fast (even though phoenix claw seems to still be a must), but moves very slowly forward and backwards. It's vertical speed seems to be a joke considering how tall that ship is. This tall-ness makes sure that close range ship can just hammer on it without the Spire having any means of escape vertically. And it at times it even dies before it gets its own guns in arc even though the enemy is just in front of it, just a little bit too high or low.
Although IF the spire gets its guns on something, it can, technically, shredd this something in mid-air. Technically, because even when the spire gets the chance, things can go horribly wrong and in close range a simple Gat/Mortar combination seems to be enough for even a Galleon.

My question to the community is wether the Spire is balanced or not. If not then how to balance it?

Offline Dutch Vanya

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Re: Spire Changes?
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2014, 09:24:42 pm »
Add a crows nest as high as the balloon
Buff chute vent ram

Offline Spud Nick

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Re: Spire Changes?
« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2014, 09:36:52 pm »
I have always wanted the spire to have faster acceleration so it can get to were it needs to faster.

Offline Dutch Vanya

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Re: Spire Changes?
« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2014, 09:51:06 pm »
In all seriousness an increased in vertical speed would do it well, but make it a bit too similar to the mobula.

Offline RearAdmiralZill

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Re: Spire Changes?
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2014, 09:20:30 am »
A big issue with the Spire is that it's a ship that requires its guns singing to be really effective, yet you're too busy repairing it to stay alive that it never gets the chance. The idea of low armor/fast rebuild just doesn't work for it. It needs a healthy amount of armor to take some shots so the guns can keep firing. I'd say something around pyra amounts. Of course, to counteract that, it has the low bare hull amounts.

Given the design of a Spire, I really think trying to make it dodge rams vertically is not how it should be doing things. Give it the capability to horizontally dodge. This would equate to fast acceleration and turning, and to balance a low speed.

On paper, the Spire should out-do a mobula with damage. The platform is flawed however, and you never get the chance except at extreme ranges. The debatable issue with heavy gun's health and rebuild time can also play a factor here.

Offline Sammy B. T.

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Re: Spire Changes?
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2014, 10:01:18 am »
Get rid of a large portion of the spire. The spire is the dream come true for any team using a hades or lumberjack as the hardest thing to line up with those guns is vertical accuracy. Its a ton of hull that does nothing but get shot at and run into things on the ground. So I would say scrunch it up a bit and remove some of the lawn dart portion of the ship.

Offline Crafeksterty

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Re: Spire Changes?
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2014, 10:56:57 am »
For a very long time ive been saying (Not so much on forums) that the spires stats are pretty crap and that all it has going for it is the guns.

The spire with 700 armor + 750 health but without the todays side gun changes was a pretty strong ship. But even then the spire couldnt survive because it couldnt outgun.
If you combine the spires previous armor and its firepower, ide say it would be a pretty OP ship.

I was against the discussion of changing the gun arcs at the time because i saw a whole lot of destructive potential. I just didnt add the balance to the armor.
So today i believe the guns aiming like they do made the Spire for a fun (More fun) ship than before. I can litterally come up with a build that would completely counter a different ship. Or a nice mix versus 2 different ships. But there are GLARING weaknesses that i cannot overcome even being a seasoned Spire Flyer.

And this is something ive said in the discussion of the spires change when it did.
.And that is the Acceleration. -Spud Nick.




Vertical Acceleration is in a good order for a spire, i would love for a minor verticality mobility but thats not the issue.
It is its Horizontal Acceleration.

The spire is a Slim figure and many times People really do miss the spire when it is going side by side. They have to resort to attacking the baloon and even that does not gurantee a hull hit.
I dont wanna act like a master or any thing but if you find some of my gameplay, i tend to turn and jump into cover as fast as possible. When i start to fly torwards my cover, the enemy shots are allready missing, problem is it is slowly starting to hit again. And when i do get into cover, i have to heavily stabilise my ship as quick as possible so i can jump out of cover.

On big maps like dunes, or water hazard, there is next to no real use for the spire. When the enemy goes sniper, the spire on those map types is locked down. Swaying from side to side, tanking sniper shots with dodging abilities helps for just a moment. An increase in acceleration should make the spire able to Tank sniper shots with constant dodging.

On a mobula and a buffed baloon, i can easily sway up and down to dodge sniper shots be it artemis/mercury/Hades/Luberjack.
The spire could use for that acceleration to better help himself. It fits because it is a very pointy ship so an accurate acceleration would allow for topnotch positioning.

Another thing is when the spire is above or Below a different ship. A good pilot with map awareness would greatly help the spire in minda gaming close range.
For example


A pyramideon is about to ram you, you go above or beneath him. The pyra either starts turning to face behind you, or goes backwards to face your front. His most effective decision is going backwards because a pyra is quicker than it is turning. So the spire has to somehow be able to beat that. With great acceleration, the spire can look at the map or the enemy ship and react accordingly. If the pyra turns for the spire after a missed ram, the spire can quickly go behind the pyra. If the pyra starts to go backwards, the spire can follow and then immidiatly after (or just go backards instantly) go backwards to use his backwards speed with your sudden backwards speed. All of a sudden you have range again. There is a third option, turn to dodge a pyra ram. You horixontaly dodge the pyra by turning and then going backwards/Forwards. This will always make the pyra Turn. You can then freely go above or under. And keep flying around him like that because you have Sudden Acceleration that the pyra has to Guess for.

Im using a Pyra as an example, but it should do with alot of things like Mid range fighting, a spire should be able to dodge hades shots just by turning and full steam ahead/Back. With kyrosine or Moonshine. Or escaping squids by suddenly moving a different direction. Etc etc.

Nothing too big of an acceleration but enough for it to people notice.


The spire is very close to Balanced, it is requiered a good crew to manage, but its true that it has huge weakneses that you cannot overcome. A buff to something that the players, Crew, pilot controls is better than to straight up give it stats that helps out the ship generally without player inputt.

TL:DR The spire can make very good use of accurate enough Acceleration

Offline macmacnick

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Re: Spire Changes?
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2014, 02:36:21 am »
I'm still waiting for the vertical shish-kabob tactic to become viable without the spire shattering like a falling crystalline vase hitting a hard floor most of the time.


Offline Omniraptor

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Re: Spire Changes?
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2014, 04:46:15 am »
mmm... junker-kabob

Anyway, I would say that a big factor that makes the spire mediocre as a sniper is that it can't strafe while firing. Junker can strafe side-to-side, mobula can strafe vertically, galleon can tank and sort of strafe, etc. All these ships can get out of cover, fire a volley, get back in cover (relatively) quickly. Spire can't do this, so it must pretty much always be played super-agressively and can't afford to get into a long cover-sniping attrition fight. Sad thing is, most sniper fights are precisely that.

The only thing keeping you from getting diabled/killed is well-timed supressive fire and support from teammates.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2014, 04:50:44 am by Omniraptor »

Offline vyew

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Re: Spire Changes?
« Reply #9 on: July 02, 2014, 06:44:24 am »
Chute vent sheesh-kabob!

Also silly idea: how about rotating all the engines 90 degrees to the left, so now the Spire is basically a crab in airship form, only able to move sideways?  ;)

(Actually now I think about it that would be kinda interesting, a crabship!)

Offline Omniraptor

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Re: Spire Changes?
« Reply #10 on: July 02, 2014, 02:04:44 pm »
Dunno whether rotating all the engines would work, because that would limit its aggressive potential, simply turn it into a defensive ship with no actual, you know, defenses and no ability to kite.

I would be interested in a tool that allowed direct lateral movement, like for example venting your balloon to the side. It's been suggested before.

Offline Captain Smollett

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Re: Spire Changes?
« Reply #11 on: July 02, 2014, 11:59:29 pm »
I agree with Zill on this (and if you loom back in the Dev app forums have felt this way before it went into production) Spire just needs a bit more armor so you can fire a clip off and still have time to get in a mallet hit before armor breaks.

Offline Dutch Vanya

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Re: Spire Changes?
« Reply #12 on: July 03, 2014, 12:05:00 am »
I agree with Zill on this (and if you loom back in the Dev app forums have felt this way before it went into production) Spire just needs a bit more armor so you can fire a clip off and still have time to get in a mallet hit before armor breaks.
I agree with this. It would also not remove it's place in the balance as the glass cannon.

Offline Tropo

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Re: Spire Changes?
« Reply #13 on: July 03, 2014, 07:37:38 am »
games got the best balance i have seen in a long time and i think the spire is good in that balance more hull amour would be great but its not really needed

Offline Crafeksterty

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Re: Spire Changes?
« Reply #14 on: July 03, 2014, 10:04:16 am »
More hull armor = More Rebuild = When armor is down, more prone to die (Due to large hull, easy to hit at close, takes up more attention)