Author Topic: Balance Concerns & Questions 1.1.4  (Read 19663 times)

Offline Spud Nick

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Re: Balance Concerns & Questions 1.1.4
« Reply #30 on: February 25, 2013, 11:02:06 pm »
The banshee rockets seem to be taking out the balloon along with everything else.  The fire chance might need to be decreased in favor of more shatter damage so they disable the right parts of the ship. Hull damage seems to be fine.

Offline RearAdmiralZill

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Re: Balance Concerns & Questions 1.1.4
« Reply #31 on: February 26, 2013, 11:17:58 am »
The banshee rockets seem to be taking out the balloon along with everything else.  The fire chance might need to be decreased in favor of more shatter damage so they disable the right parts of the ship. Hull damage seems to be fine.

Its beatable but not without the right gear (chem spray). The biggest fire starter is the 30% chance on aoe. The other 12% just adds gas to the bonfire. Unless you miss most of your shots, youre going to set something on fire. Then you add in the new buff to the fire damage modifier on hull, coupled with its already good damage on the balloon, and you got a pretty good weapon. The balloon take a lot of heat from the fire stacks on it.

Ive watch a few matches and it still takes awhile for them to actually kill someone. With proper engie work they can be overcome. Just sitting in their volleys will get you killed though, just as any other gun.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2013, 11:19:42 am by RearAdmiralZill »

Offline NikolaiLev

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Re: Balance Concerns & Questions 1.1.4
« Reply #32 on: February 26, 2013, 11:58:27 am »
The banshee rockets seem to be taking out the balloon along with everything else.  The fire chance might need to be decreased in favor of more shatter damage so they disable the right parts of the ship. Hull damage seems to be fine.

Its beatable but not without the right gear (chem spray). The biggest fire starter is the 30% chance on aoe. The other 12% just adds gas to the bonfire. Unless you miss most of your shots, youre going to set something on fire. Then you add in the new buff to the fire damage modifier on hull, coupled with its already good damage on the balloon, and you got a pretty good weapon. The balloon take a lot of heat from the fire stacks on it.

Ive watch a few matches and it still takes awhile for them to actually kill someone. With proper engie work they can be overcome. Just sitting in their volleys will get you killed though, just as any other gun.

Well, the nerf to Explosive damage has made such weapons less suitable as primary kill weapons, leading to a greater necessity for either Flechette or Piercing to knock out armor.  So, this helps keep the Banshee under control.

... Unfortunately, I feel this was an unnecessary hit to the Light Mortar, which is hard enough to use as it is.  I'm not sure the slight increase in raw DPS well compensates for its poor range and difficulty of use.

I could be wrong about that, though.  But I don't see myself bothering to use the Scylla anymore, especially with the Rocket Carousel being more useful over all, and the Flak still being a solid choice.

Offline Captain Magellan

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Re: Balance Concerns & Questions 1.1.4
« Reply #33 on: February 26, 2013, 12:47:45 pm »
I really like the update, except for two small things.
First, I think the Banshee is slightly overpowered in the fact that it destroys all components on your ship. The first few matches I played was against a bunch of new people who were spamming carousels and it really would destroy everything on the ship. And sure, Zill, with the right Engineers, anything can be overcome; but you have a problem when one type of gun needs a lot more effort to defend against than another gun. Honestly, I loved the Banshee before the fire chance, it laid out nasty damage at close ranges.
Second, the heavy flak is pretty useless now. The other three medium weapons can kill on their own but the heavy flak needs another gun to be effective, which is a problem. It's not very reliable on a Goldfish because it takes too long to bring your side guns to bear, and by the time you strip their armor and bring the heavy flak into position, they have fixed it. I rushed a heavy flak only galleon with a squid and killed it, THAT is a problem. The fact that a squid can take multiple heavy flak shots and be fine is kind of strange. It's just logic that any fleet's core will be made up of flak, but with the way things are now, I'd rather have a Hwacha or Hellhound.

Offline RearAdmiralZill

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Re: Balance Concerns & Questions 1.1.4
« Reply #34 on: February 26, 2013, 01:03:01 pm »
I really like the update, except for two small things.
First, I think the Banshee is slightly overpowered in the fact that it destroys all components on your ship. The first few matches I played was against a bunch of new people who were spamming carousels and it really would destroy everything on the ship. And sure, Zill, with the right Engineers, anything can be overcome; but you have a problem when one type of gun needs a lot more effort to defend against than another gun. Honestly, I loved the Banshee before the fire chance, it laid out nasty damage at close ranges.
Second, the heavy flak is pretty useless now. The other three medium weapons can kill on their own but the heavy flak needs another gun to be effective, which is a problem. It's not very reliable on a Goldfish because it takes too long to bring your side guns to bear, and by the time you strip their armor and bring the heavy flak into position, they have fixed it. I rushed a heavy flak only galleon with a squid and killed it, THAT is a problem. The fact that a squid can take multiple heavy flak shots and be fine is kind of strange. It's just logic that any fleet's core will be made up of flak, but with the way things are now, I'd rather have a Hwacha or Hellhound.

I have my reservations about the banshee too, but i think its too soon to render an OP judgement. Tactics are still being thrown around to counter the newer meta. Even im still figuring out the best ways to counter banshee spams. Its hard to revert from ignoring them since they were pretty worthless before, to something very usable in the game now that can kill you if ignored.

I will say it once again, that heavy flak is not useless. I do admit that using it on a goldfish is harder now. It has to be used it unison with your teammate to be at its most effective if you go that route. The side gun method does work (ive done it) but is difficult to time perfectly. Youre right that it works at its best with another gun helping it, which i dont see as a weakness for this reason. Hwacha can disable a ship pretty hard. But how many volleys, without any other intervention, does it take to kill it? A lot. You got to ram or use another gun to really get that killing power. Heavy Carronade can pluck balloons and chew handily through armor. How about that hull? It takes awhile on its own, and it is normally helped by the ground grinding through the hull with it. Lumberjack? Its hard as well, because the initial hits are easy. Hitting an out of control ship with a Lumberjack is not easy. Its best for locking down a target, and helping with other guns or a teammate to finish them. Flak is no different. Its armor damage is average. Not going to insta kill anything. But if you get 2 full damage shots of flak on the bare hull, thats usually a kill. If not just rinse and repeat. Again, it needs help. They all arguably need help to kill they way they do.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2013, 01:04:53 pm by RearAdmiralZill »

Offline Pickle

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Re: Balance Concerns & Questions 1.1.4
« Reply #35 on: February 26, 2013, 01:36:23 pm »
I think the Goldfish is suffering worse than the Galleon with the cumulative changes to medium weapons.  The Galleon can fall back to the long-range support role but the Goldfish was always seen as the hunter-killer able to operate very effectively on it's own.  That made it first choice for a lot of Captains playing pick-up games.  Goldfish Captains now have to coordinate for maximum effectiveness, and that doesn't come naturally to everyone, and isn't always easy to set-up in a pick-up match.

Offline Captain Magellan

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Re: Balance Concerns & Questions 1.1.4
« Reply #36 on: February 26, 2013, 02:37:26 pm »
I'm sure it's just my stubbornness getting in the way, I'll get use to the way things are eventually.

However, the new way that the gun's stats are displayed I do not like. I need numbers. The seconds it takes to reload, damage, and range.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2013, 02:56:31 pm by Captain Magellan »

Offline RearAdmiralZill

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Re: Balance Concerns & Questions 1.1.4
« Reply #37 on: February 26, 2013, 04:29:28 pm »
I'm sure it's just my stubbornness getting in the way, I'll get use to the way things are eventually.

However, the new way that the gun's stats are displayed I do not like. I need numbers. The seconds it takes to reload, damage, and range.

Now that I do agree with. That or an available table for us folk who appreciate hard numbers over general terms.

Offline Pickle

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Re: Balance Concerns & Questions 1.1.4
« Reply #38 on: February 26, 2013, 04:41:40 pm »
I'm sure it's just my stubbornness getting in the way, I'll get use to the way things are eventually.

However, the new way that the gun's stats are displayed I do not like. I need numbers. The seconds it takes to reload, damage, and range.

Now that I do agree with. That or an available table for us folk who appreciate hard numbers over general terms.

Someone just needs to fix the table on the main website that someone broke when "Mine Launcher" appeared on it.  All the details were there.

Offline raubtier

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Re: Balance Concerns & Questions 1.1.4
« Reply #39 on: February 27, 2013, 09:20:07 am »
Hi everyone,

I must say that I am really annoyed by all the rocket spam lately. Whenever I face one of those ships and he manages to hit a volley on my ship I am automaticly dead in the water and the battle instantly turns into a "how long will it take this time until they smashed us to the ground or rammed us to death"-thing. I don't see any way to counter this lame rocket spam without a perfect team setup. It's a terrible roflstomp tactic in random matches, easy to execute and way too rewarding...

Well that's my opinion anyways.

regards,

raubtier

Offline RearAdmiralZill

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Re: Balance Concerns & Questions 1.1.4
« Reply #40 on: February 27, 2013, 10:08:01 am »
Hi everyone,

I must say that I am really annoyed by all the rocket spam lately. Whenever I face one of those ships and he manages to hit a volley on my ship I am automaticly dead in the water and the battle instantly turns into a "how long will it take this time until they smashed us to the ground or rammed us to death"-thing. I don't see any way to counter this lame rocket spam without a perfect team setup. It's a terrible roflstomp tactic in random matches, easy to execute and way too rewarding...

Well that's my opinion anyways.

regards,

raubtier

Are you referring to the Rocket Carrousel or the Hwacha? Or both?

Offline raubtier

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Re: Balance Concerns & Questions 1.1.4
« Reply #41 on: February 27, 2013, 11:50:02 am »
I think it is more the combination of both. Most times the Manticore Launcher (probably loaded with heavy clip) disables my main gun in an instant while dealing enough widespread damage to the other modules and the Carrousel finishes the job while denying any chance to recover.

edit: I mean they don't really deal "that" much damage, but you simply can't do anything. You can't fight back and you can't escape. They disable your entire ship with two salvoes and ram you until you're dead or smashed to the ground. So unfun...

edit2: All in all I think they are better in disabling than the Flamethrower AND have a better range.

regards,

raubtier
« Last Edit: February 27, 2013, 12:14:36 pm by raubtier »

Offline awkm

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Re: Balance Concerns & Questions 1.1.4
« Reply #42 on: February 27, 2013, 12:20:35 pm »
I'm sure it's just my stubbornness getting in the way, I'll get use to the way things are eventually.

However, the new way that the gun's stats are displayed I do not like. I need numbers. The seconds it takes to reload, damage, and range.

Now that I do agree with. That or an available table for us folk who appreciate hard numbers over general terms.

We will make more specific information available in future level unlocks.  The change to the UI is the most friendly for new players.  For y'all advanced players, yeah it's not the most useful.

Offline Captain Magellan

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Re: Balance Concerns & Questions 1.1.4
« Reply #43 on: February 27, 2013, 05:45:24 pm »
Quote
Quote from: Captain Magellan on February 26, 2013, 02:37:26 pm

        I'm sure it's just my stubbornness getting in the way, I'll get use to the way things are eventually.

        However, the new way that the gun's stats are displayed I do not like. I need numbers. The seconds it takes to reload, damage, and range.


    Now that I do agree with. That or an available table for us folk who appreciate hard numbers over general terms.


We will make more specific information available in future level unlocks.  The change to the UI is the most friendly for new players.  For y'all advanced players, yeah it's not the most useful.

Now I don't agree with that. I've been spending my time playing with all the new guys and they really don't understand the differences between damage types or exactly the difference between the damage the guns do. They don't know how to best utilize them but they keep getting hit with these things called "Banshees" and so they just load out their ship with these things and then they become extremely effective.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2013, 05:49:02 pm by Captain Magellan »

Offline Pickle

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Re: Balance Concerns & Questions 1.1.4
« Reply #44 on: February 27, 2013, 06:07:41 pm »
Now I don't agree with that. I've been spending my time playing with all the new guys and they really don't understand the differences between damage types or exactly the difference between the damage the guns do. They don't know how to best utilize them but they keep getting hit with these things called "Banshees" and so they just load out their ship with these things and then they become extremely effective.

Monkey see, monkey do.

And when the start to wonder how they're getting hit from two map squares away they'll discover the Mercury.

When the wonder why their Banshees are out-of-action before they've closed to effective range they'll discover Heavy Clip and/or the Hwacha.

When they wonder why they're bouncing along the ground with a Goldfish/Squid hovering above their balloon and above the elevation of their Banshees they'll discover the Carronades.


New players will always be vulnerable to FOTM builds.  You can't base you balance/patch strategy around such a fickle element of the player base.  All you can do is encourage the more experienced players to pass some of their knowledge along.  At the moment there are some crowd control issues in the Lobby that are inhibiting some of this knowledge transfer.