Author Topic: Balance Concerns & Questions 1.1.4  (Read 4442 times)

Offline awkm

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Balance Concerns & Questions 1.1.4
« on: February 21, 2013, 01:41:55 pm »
Just to track everyone's concerns and questions.  I'll be fielding answers as best as I can.

Remember, I have a strict policy against revealing meta or any kind of strategy.  I will just give you the facts.

Offline Squash

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Re: Balance Concerns & Questions 1.1.4
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2013, 02:30:12 pm »
I know in a previous blog post you said you didn't want to talk about why you do certain things, but I'm going to ask anyway. Can you explain the decision making process you went through for this last patch?

Also, should we expect any hotfixes in the next few days that adjust anything other than stability, or is this a final release?

Offline RearAdmiralZill

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Re: Balance Concerns & Questions 1.1.4
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2013, 02:42:53 pm »
Also, should we expect any hotfixes in the next few days that adjust anything other than stability, or is this a final release?

From that I can tell, they are letting the players figure out the nuances of the new build and if something troubling appears they will look into it for hotfixes. Idk how long that will take, but yesterday I saw a lot of guns being tossed around.

Offline awkm

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Re: Balance Concerns & Questions 1.1.4
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2013, 02:44:27 pm »
I know in a previous blog post you said you didn't want to talk about why you do certain things, but I'm going to ask anyway. Can you explain the decision making process you went through for this last patch?

Also, should we expect any hotfixes in the next few days that adjust anything other than stability, or is this a final release?

Well a lot of things changed in this patch in regards to balance.  Fire has been something that we've been wanting to play with for a long time and finally got the bandwidth to do so.  That was the biggest.

The other issue was that disabling components was not meaningful.  They were rebuilt too quickly to make any sense.  So the change to that was an obvious one.

I've already hotfixed the Hwacha (spread 6 from 5 degrees, AoE 7m from 10m radius... very minor changes to test out).  It was far too effective with burst rounds (Zill, that's because of you :P ).  It's still a very dangerous gun (as it always has been, just overshadowed by the ease of use of medium flak).  However, I don't believe we're in OP territory yet.  Just because you lose with it (patch has only been live for 24 hours), give it a couple more shots and figure out a counter.  Hwachas have a large spread degree so keep that in mind.

And because disabling is more meaningful now... you should give it a shot in your Hwacha counter strategies.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2013, 02:47:32 pm by awkm »

Offline RearAdmiralZill

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Re: Balance Concerns & Questions 1.1.4
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2013, 02:47:49 pm »
Quote
I've already hotfixed the Hwacha (spread 6 from 5 degrees, AoE 7m from 10m radius... very minor changes to test out).

When did you introduce that? Im just curious if I was using the updated Hwacha yesterday or not.

 
Quote
(Zill, that's because of you :P )

Just doing my part, haha.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2013, 02:49:20 pm by RearAdmiralZill »

Offline Squash

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Re: Balance Concerns & Questions 1.1.4
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2013, 02:59:36 pm »
Well I'm going to keep pushing my luck on questions I wouldn't normally ask. How influential on your decisions was the Fjords tournament?

The update patch was a few days before what was almost the first week of the League, was that intentional or inadvertent?

Offline RearAdmiralZill

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Re: Balance Concerns & Questions 1.1.4
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2013, 03:04:23 pm »
Quote
The update patch was a few days before what was almost the first week of the League, was that intentional or inadvertent?

GOIO just went on sale again today, so they wanted to push out the update prior to the influx of new players. The league date was coincidental I believe.

Offline awkm

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Re: Balance Concerns & Questions 1.1.4
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2013, 03:31:37 pm »
Well I'm going to keep pushing my luck on questions I wouldn't normally ask. How influential on your decisions was the Fjords tournament?

We already knew there was something up with the flak.  The tournament pushed those suspicions to its tipping point.  The thing is, I really hate balancing just one for one player base.  Expert players, especially in a tournament setting (more conservative in tourney DM), will use a specific strategy.  It will really boil down to the circumstance.  The tournament was competitive, so people are conservative.  The tournament was DM, so there it devolves to DPS fights.  What happened made a lot of sense, and you can still do it.  Hang back and Field Gun/Flak people.  It's much harder now, sure.  The main issue we solved was bringing back close to midrange combat back into play.  More options on the table.

When did you introduce that? Im just curious if I was using the updated Hwacha yesterday or not.

I did it at about 1pm today (2/22/13).  Check it out and let me know what you think.  Original Hwacha shots from yesterday felt fine but with Burst is was a little much.  Do the math, with Burst Rounds you'll be back to yesterday's Hwacha but nothing more :P

Offline RearAdmiralZill

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Re: Balance Concerns & Questions 1.1.4
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2013, 03:58:17 pm »
Quote
I did it at about 1pm today (2/22/13).  Check it out and let me know what you think.  Original Hwacha shots from yesterday felt fine but with Burst is was a little much.  Do the math, with Burst Rounds you'll be back to yesterday's Hwacha but nothing more :P

As soon as you said it was changed I wanted to try it out, haha. The stat changes seem reasonable though. Burst was always pretty devastating on Hwacha, and with the new rebuild times that only furthered its potency.

Offline Yiski

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Re: Balance Concerns & Questions 1.1.4
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2013, 04:15:34 pm »
Why did loch rounds get changed where it now locks the gun in place once loaded?

Offline Mattilald Anguisad

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Re: Balance Concerns & Questions 1.1.4
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2013, 05:02:26 pm »
Banshees are back in full style with smaller spread, more damage, chance to ignite ships and longer rebuild time (dissable was probably it's bestr role even before).
Before getting fully hit with a hawacha mean't herculean job, to recover. I don't think I got hit with a full havacha since the latest tweak, but what must have been morning you NA people when I last played, that was literaly a death sentence, becouse there was absolutely now way of getting out of it (it too EVERYTING except the ballon out on the Pyramidion in 1 magazine, with the new rebuild time you were a sitting duck) and with new rebuild time you were hit by the time you rebuild 1 component. that WAS bronken - can't say for what is now.

Offline Mattilald Anguisad

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Re: Balance Concerns & Questions 1.1.4
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2013, 05:04:08 pm »
Why did loch rounds get changed where it now locks the gun in place once loaded?
A good question. It's become a realy small niche choice (poing plank sniping?)

Offline awkm

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Re: Balance Concerns & Questions 1.1.4
« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2013, 05:12:11 pm »
Why did loch rounds get changed where it now locks the gun in place once loaded?

We were basically already there.  It was to tone down persistent long range abuse with Field/M.Flak.  You can still do it, of course.  Just harder.

Online N-Sunderland

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Re: Balance Concerns & Questions 1.1.4
« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2013, 09:12:57 am »
I agree with Mattilald on this one. It's absolutely impossible to hold a ship together against a Hwacha, never mind two. By the time you've fixed one component, they unleash another volley. And with the double rebuild time on guns, gunners themselves are useless at repairing. If they take a wrench, there's no way they'll have enough time to repair and do significant damage to the enemy ship before the Hwachas fire. And if they have a spanner, they'll be able to rebuild, but they'll be left with a gun with no rotation speed.

So what are your thoughts on this?

Offline Mattilald Anguisad

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Re: Balance Concerns & Questions 1.1.4
« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2013, 09:18:30 am »
I get te logic behind the longer rebuild time (make the effort of sniping speciffic components with mercs instead of sniping the hull worthwile), but it just seems that the same logic, forgets about hawachas bruta efficiency of destroying components (there is about 20-30% chance one of the components will not be entirely destroyed, but that still leaves you with 5 or more destroyed components). Maybe make it much smaller spread or much larger soread or someting else that will make it twice as hard to use (and therefore require that much better gunner).
Quote from: Mattilald Anguisad on February 22, 2013, 05:02:26 pm
 
Quote
I don't think I got hit with a full havacha since the latest tweak, but what must have been morning you NA people when I last played, that was literaly a death sentence, becouse there was absolutely now way of getting out of it


Now I have been hit with a full hawacha since that tweak, and it's till too powerfull, no mater what you do, onece you get hit with it, there is nothing you cant du, but hope (&pray) that your allies deal with the enemy with hawacha.

EDIT: I merged 2 of my posts into one
« Last Edit: February 23, 2013, 09:24:26 am by Mattilald Anguisad »