Spawn system feedback 1.3.4

[Clementine Devitt]

Awkm I would like to thank you for getting back to all of us so quickly.

I know it seems we are angry and yelling at cross purposes and you are handling the complaining very well all things considered when larger companies would be yelling back by now.

Just know that the reason we are angry is the real love and time we have all invested in your team's vision, many of us have been here from the very start and really want to see it do well for a long time to come.

[Zander Broda]

had a fun little glitch today. we died, our captain picked a spawn point where some fighting was happening and we didn't spawn behind the enemy, oh no, we spawned below them. we spawned under the map. i can only imagine the terror of seeing a hwachafish rising out of the earth to blast you at close range.

[Locutus of borg]

What about if the timer before you can spawn is increased to something like 20-30 seconds?  That way the ship that got the kill has the ability to repair, reposition and prepare for next combat (just like before), and the respawning ship still gets to experience the tactical element of spawn choice.  The draw back is obviously that you have to sit and wait an extra 20 seconds, but you cut down on the rediculous cross-map commutes with your spawn choice, so it would cancel out

[Ahsas]

Awkm I would like to thank you for getting back to all of us so quickly.

I know it seems we are angry and yelling at cross purposes and you are handling the complaining very well all things considered when larger companies would be yelling back by now.

Just know that the reason we are angry is the real love and time we have all invested in your team's vision, many of us have been here from the very start and really want to see it do well for a long time to come.

No no no. Larger companies would be stonewalling or brushing off concerns with a generic response. Awkm's response to the community has been absolutely amazing. Prompt, frequent, respectful, informative, and you know... existent. That he has been proactive in telling us what the plan is, what the time table is, and has both asked for suggestions and responded to those offered up gives me incredible hope for the future of this game.

Making games is hard. Making gameplay decisions is harder. So far, every suggestion I've seen has had some issue with it, which leads me to the conclusion that there is no perfect decision. The game designers actually have to weigh pros and cons and try to make the decision they think is best for the game overall. So keep up the feedback to help them get the data they need to make a better decision.

Personally, I like the idea of bases and lines of scrimmage. However, I don't feel experienced or qualified enough to offer insight beyond that, so carry on.

[Byron Cavendish]

We all have to remember we care about this game and it's success. All I can say is we just got frustrated because you shipped out a feature with minimal testing that no one asked for, under the pretense that we wanted it in a vaguely obscure distant past. All we wanted was better starting spawns at dunes and fjords, we were quite vocal on that. I never saw a thread about random chosen spawns from any player. We just want you to leave major game changing...changes in the dev app longer. Not enough testers isn't a good enough excuse, if it isn't tested you don't just ship it anyway, you give it more time. You can't blame us for that, we aren't the developer, we're the consumer.

[Crafeksterty]

The game has been updateing almost like an MMO. Ide pay for another copy just for the sake of supporting Muse.
But then again this is another bump in the road that we are trying to test out and balance out.

How things stands, a longer spawning timer is actualy beneficial if they get to choose spawns.
In a more complex way you can add different timers to different spawns. But still 15-40 seconds
In its most simple method, the dev app spawn changes that we tested out recently is defenite improvement. The fjords spawn were nice, the dual at dawn spawns were interresting. Canyons was sort of the same. etc etc.


But what i can say is that this Tech could be used for something more like Crazy King or King of the hilll (Please consider making capturing a bit more fun and responcive)
Deathmatch is not really the best match type to allow spawning.
Because in DEATHMATCH dying or killing is the best or worst thing that can happen while Crazy King and or king of the hill is more of a "how can we get the point" type of match.

[awkm]

@crafeksterty

Try our CK and KOTH maps on dev app.  For CK, the general idea is that each team has side of of the map and therefore has easier access to a portion of the points.  Each team is also very far from at least one of the points.

As far as capturing goes, there are a lot of designs floating around but we don't know when we can get to them—one of the engineers left.  Hopefully the spawn will naturally improve them.  I'll evaluate it after the fixes go live.  If it needs work, I'll make sure to prioritize it.

[Alistair MacBain]

The system isnt really benefitial for a crazy king game mode.
You can just die on purpose short before the point changes and then rush for the new point before the enemy can get there.
Imo its sort of a abuse of the spawning system. With old spawns you couldnt do this cause of the possibility to get a bad spawn.

@akwm
Not tested in dev app yet, just some quick thoughts.

But then the points have to be designed in a certain way to not be unfair.
First point must always be the middle point where both sides can rush in the same amount of time to.
Second spawn will surely be on one side but the third must be on the opponents side.
Same goes for fourth and fifth.
Else the sides are unbalanced cause the side with the first spawns on its side can just rush that point and be faster at all points on their side while the enemy can watch them capture one point after another.
And yes this is a optimal situation for one side and a horrible for the other but thats what it could lead to.

[Richard LeMoon]

Actually, I disagree completely with choosing close spawns being OK on CP. I am sure the hotfix will improve things, but currently, CP matches are terrible. I did not mind the deathmatch ones because you could still use a strategy to win. However, I was in several 3v3 CK matches last night and they were simply frustrating. Whoever gets to the point first always wins that point. There was no turnover. Once a team claimed a point, it was best to just move on to the next one and wait. I was not on a low skill team either. Two of our ships bristled with 7-10 level players, while the third was mid level. The other team had two good ships, and one first day pilot and crew on a poorly equipped Mobula. We ended up losing that match, even though we killed all three ships over and over, and suffered no deaths on our ship at all. Hell, I was not even doing anything most of the game as engineer on a Pyramidian. We just kept killing everything that came to the point. When the time came to start heading to the next point, the other good captains would just let their ships die, and spawn at the next point while the Mobula drifted aimlessly around the active point. Even the Galleon could get back to the point before we could kill the Squid.

I'll try to get on dev app soon to test some of the fixes out.

[Tropo]

there no way to fix how bad the cp's are at this stage from what i can se they will never be fair

[awkm]

Things I can touch before hot fix:

- Position of spawns
- Number of spawns
- Spawn team assignment (both, red only, blue only)
- Time it takes to capture point

The spawns on CK and KOTH are greatly improved in dev app.

[Zyem]

there no way to fix how bad the cp's are at this stage from what i can se they will never be fair

I know this is a quite off topic, but one of the issues with capturing the points is the ability to block is very powerful if you already own the point. As long as you can get someone from your team to the point fast enough, they will never neutralise/capture it.

Perhaps if you die next to the point which you own, it "damages" the point by 30% or something (as in, instantly reduces the capture ring), allowing for a quicker neutralisation and thus, capture. This may allow much more changeover.

[awkm]

@Xyem

Yeah, getting someone off the point is a part of a my proposed redesigns.  Emphasis on getting someone off.

[Sammy B. T.]

Effective harpoons confirmed

[Thomas]

Capturing points has always been pretty tricky. Usually whichever team gets their first ends up holding it long enough to get more points than the other team can. I'm pretty sure I remember reading that the time it takes to flip a point has been reduced for the new spawn points, which is pretty good since they used to take forever and a day anyways; but letting them spawn closer lets them get their faster to neutralize the flip, and you're back where you started.


One simple solution might be to just make the capture area smaller. Then they have to fight harder to maintain control of the zone, instead of having a large area to contest in. Then along with faster flips and being able to spawn closer, you can get a point that changes hands a few times if teams don't work hard to actually hold it.