1.3.3 PILOT, PILOT SKILLS, AND SHIP BALANCE

[NoWuffo]

Not much else to say really. Want to try the spire, the mobula didn't really have a place before (never saw it used) and now certainly wont until changes are made.

I'd avoid making such overarching statements. My clan used the mobula with quite a lot of success as a sniping-Galleon killer. True, a Spire might be better at it now, but maybe not. Don't be so quick to rule out any given ship, ever. Often if you get creative and find something that goes against the norm, you may be rewarded for your audacity to defy the meta.

[Kriegson]

Not much else to say really. Want to try the spire, the mobula didn't really have a place before (never saw it used) and now certainly wont until changes are made.

I'd avoid making such overarching statements. My clan used the mobula with quite a lot of success as a sniping-Galleon killer. True, a Spire might be better at it now, but maybe not. Don't be so quick to rule out any given ship, ever. Often if you get creative and find something that goes against the norm, you may be rewarded for your audacity to defy the meta.

Or just lose repeatedly
At any rate, I've never seen them used to any effect. Likely because that would require this aforementioned "Creativity" while most prefer to follow the FoTM, but yeah at any rate when everything is easier to use and quite effective, there is little incentive for experimentation =/

That said, I would love to see creative use of the mobula. I fussed around with the idea of a "DMZ mobula" using 2 mine launchers on the outer guns and different medium range weapons in the middle and center, but it always just got bumrushed regardless.

[geggis]

We have the odd rough game but that's usually down to uneven teams (this of course works both ways). I've never seen anyone fly my mobula build before though and it's frequently commented on after games. It's quite unorthodox and versatile, lending itself to shorter and longer ranges, higher and lower engagements, as well as newcomers and more experienced players. Granted, it's not a focused death machine like other builds but I think my loadout more than makes up for that. I've played against pilots with your mentality Krieg who have dismissed the mobula and fell foul to us focusing them down. Needless to say, subsequent games we were focused down! And yeah, that hurts ;-)

[Captain Smollett]

The Mobula's shouldn't be so quickly dismissed. 

It has nearly the armor and permahull of a pyra but with many more guns and trifecta options.  What it lacks in forward speed it makes up for with absolutely absurd vertical movement.  What it lacks with ramming it makes up for with more firepower.  It just needs a much better crew than a pyra does and not many of the more experienced players have taken on the challenge yet of Mobula mastery.

People just need to experiment with it a bit more.  The spire is much more vulnerable to disabling as well as outright destruction.  3 light weapons + 1 heavy weapon is not always better than 4 light weapons either as people often forget the pilot can jump mount the middle gun on the Mobula.

[RearAdmiralZill]

people often forget the pilot can jump mount the middle gun on the Mobula.

Didn't they fix that? Can't say i've tried it lately. Also, ask raft about the mobula ;p

[HamsterIV]

I haven't checked since the last patch but in the one before it the pilot couldn't jump directly from the helm position to the gun mount. However the the pilot could to jump on the railing then jump to the gun. It is a bit harder but doable if the pilot had time. I think Muse should leave it in especially since it is even easier and more effective to quadfecta on a Spire by design.

[Thomas]

The only issue I have with the piloting tools is something that's been around for ages. The 'effects continue for X seconds after deactivation'. Especially with the balloon tools. You might want to duck down real quick, or rise up, but the effects continue for a good amount of time, doing a lot of balloon damage, and on occasion sending you hurtling towards terra firma. Why do these items have persistent effects while engine items only last during their activation?

[RearAdmiralZill]

Mostly for balance I imagine. I like it since you just blip it on and you'll normally get the desired effect for a dodge or quick maneuver. Holding it longer is usually a desperation move.

[The Djinn]

The only issue I have with the piloting tools is something that's been around for ages. The 'effects continue for X seconds after deactivation'. Especially with the balloon tools. You might want to duck down real quick, or rise up, but the effects continue for a good amount of time, doing a lot of balloon damage, and on occasion sending you hurtling towards terra firma. Why do these items have persistent effects while engine items only last during their activation?

I think Zill hit the nail on the head here.

There's also the issue of Drogue Chute: I'm always glad that I can pop it on, swing at the Balloon a few times (on a Goldfish, Squid, or Galleon), return to the helm, pop it on again, and repeat. Having the captain able to slow the descent AND repair helps tremendously against Balloon pins.

...though I'll admit the usual case of <1 seconds of activation for, say, Hydrogen and Chute Vent makes the "Use 240 seconds of Chute Vent" achievements a bit silly. 

[Sprayer]

I haven't checked since the last patch but in the one before it the pilot couldn't jump directly from the helm position to the gun mount. However the the pilot could to jump on the railing then jump to the gun. It is a bit harder but doable if the pilot had time. I think Muse should leave it in especially since it is even easier and more effective to quadfecta on a Spire by design.

Actually pilots only need to turn around and sidestep and can already jump mount. The patch that changed it removed the ability of interaction through walls. The wall in front of the top gun is not as high on the sides as right in the middle where the helm is.

[Crafeksterty]

Probably because the Mobula's real strength was the ability to easily get 3-4 light guns on a single target. With the changes, the Spire can easily get 2-3 light guns and a medium gun on a single target, making it have strictly more firepower than the Mobula, while also being easier to Engineer on (especially now that the hull is in an easier spot to get 2 people on without sacrificing your ability to quickly switch back to shooting).

It sort of leaves the Mobula high and dry, as it's role of "concentrated firepower on a single target" is now better done by the Spire in virtually all cases.

Yupp, exactly what i argued about on spire forums.

I HATE the trend of "foward-pointing guns are the way to go"

Read my posts on https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,2574.0.html


I argued constantly, even on an interview that the Spire simply needed an acceleration buff. The ship now is viable in many cases, i have to admit.  The right gun facing forward didnt change much and simply made it more comfortable, but the lower left changed ALOT. Making it better than something else on this game (clearly talking about the mobula).


But if the spire were to stay like how it is noe in 1.3.3. Then ide suggest the mobula need some heavy stat changes regarding his health.
There is this trick on the mobula where the captain can jump on the gun above him which is usefull but thats not how i picture the mobula used.
If you look at the galleon, it is pretty much a heavy gun mobula, while the mobula is a light gun galleon.  If anything the mobula in a way needs health change. It is as squishy, no MORE squishy than a spire. This multitool that is the mobula has a hard time maintaning being evasive because baloons are so costly to injure or have injured.

This will then derail me into talking about baloons being universal on ships and hard to repair.

The baloon is now much easier to take down. Not with the carronades but, just everything.  Hades are a new contender to baloon destroying. And sort of works better than the light carronades. My main issue with the baloon is how long it takes to repair. Would be nice to have the mallet/Pipe wrench simply heal the baloon x2 more than what they usually do.
The descriptions could say "Heals 225 on hull and components, 450 on baloon". Now that i think of it, would be a bit too strong. 1.5? "337 on baloon".

Ok back to mobula. The good thing about the mobula is that the hull side has the hull closer to the gun than how the baloon is closer to the engine (to the back).
This is allready an obviouse design choice. BUT it is still hard to maintain and it looses its firepower if it does get injured.

Which leaves to the tactic of glass cannoning. Killing before getting killed.

With a drastic change of hullhealth on the mobula we could see that tactic where a mobula then would out damage a spire despite the spire having better ways of damaging the mobula because the mobula will gladly then take a bit of damage for the sake of killing the spire.

[The Djinn]

There is this trick on the mobula where the captain can jump on the gun above him which is usefull but thats not how i picture the mobula used.

A point we differ on. I feel that gun should be made more accessible to the pilot. It seems the Mobula is supposed to be the weapons platform of Guns of Icarus, and I can't think of a better way to help shape that distinction than giving the pilot ready access to a gun. I know the ability of the top-right Spire gun to fire forward has already made me hop on the weapon as a pilot and use it as a stationary sniping platform when against teams where I can get away with that.

If you look at the galleon, it is pretty much a heavy gun mobula, while the mobula is a light gun galleon.

I'd always considered the Galleon as a area denial and/or sniping ship rather than the offensive weapons platform I think of the Mobula as. Maybe that's just me.

With a drastic change of hullhealth on the mobula we could see that tactic where a mobula then would out damage a spire despite the spire having better ways of damaging the mobula because the mobula will gladly then take a bit of damage for the sake of killing the spire.

This might solve the issue, yes...but I think there are more elegant ways to solve the problem.

The way I see it we've got an issue of a large, relatively un-mobile forward facing weapons platform that is difficult to Engineer on. Which is basically what the Spire was, although the movement of the hull has, in my experience, made it easier to keep alive. Our current defining difference is the 5 light guns vs 3 light + 1 Heavy, the slight emphasis of turning on the Spire vs. vertical movement on the Mobula, and the layout of the floor plan. To me that's not quite enough of a distinction to really sell the two as decidedly separate and equally useful ships, especially now that the Spire has easy gun access for the pilot (on a gun that can shoot forwards, no less). While the ships are definitely different, they conceptually tread on each other's toes (in my mind, at least).

A general question to the community, then: How do you see the Mobula? What would you want to see a floating gun platform used for, and how would you like to see it handled? MUSE has stated in this thread that they're looking at the Mobula, so maybe we can help them narrow down what we'd like to see the Mobula become.

[Serenum]

A general question to the community, then: How do you see the Mobula? What would you want to see a floating gun platform used for, and how would you like to see it handled? MUSE has stated in this thread that they're looking at the Mobula, so maybe we can help them narrow down what we'd like to see the Mobula become.

As I said before, I'd like to see a complete redesign when it comes to gun placement.
First I'll explain my logic: front facing guns are boring when you are piloting a ship and I play mainly pilot. I have the most fun when I can make hit-and-run tactics, which are best accomplished with side guns or even rear guns.
Plus, most ships already have front facing guns and the Mobula is getting really similar to the Spire right now.

What I would like to see for the mobula is more of a side weapon configuration, 3 light guns on each side with trifecta possibile if the enemy is in the sweet spot, no front gun nor back gun, but the side weapons can fire a bit towards the back if the weapon has enough firing arc.

Alternatively make it REALLY crazy and simply change place of the guns: all facing back! It would be unique and could be open to some interesting loadouts and strategies, plus combo ability with things like tar, harpoons+moonshine to "tow" ships (assuming it works like some people say), mines and so on...

[Sammy B. T.]

What I would like to see for the mobula is more of a side weapon configuration, 3 light guns on each side with trifecta possibile if the enemy is in the sweet spot, no front gun nor back gun, but the side weapons can fire a bit towards the back if the weapon has enough firing arc.

Wouldn't that functionally just make the mobula a bigger Junker?

[-Mad Maverick-]

here is something nuts:

mobula has BIG exposed baloon = weakness
             fairly slow in a straight line = Weakness
             fair turning rate = Average
            Great vertical movement= Advantage
            Weak Armor= Weakness

what if we changed its armor and made it more like goldfish level with its super exposed baloon and terrible repair points it would be FAR from a tank but the buff COULD make it an interesting brawler, kind of like "the spire for close range"

MAYBE if we needed to we could even take its turning rate down a little bit....