Author Topic: GUNS and GUN SKILLS Balance v1.3.2  (Read 27343 times)

Offline Nidh

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Re: GUNS and GUN SKILLS Balance v1.3.2
« Reply #15 on: September 22, 2013, 01:42:26 am »
I think the light flak is in a much more viable place now, especially when paired with the magma cannon. Both have an arming time, and both are great at range with the flak's improved accuracy and the magma's reach. The light flak also mimic's it's older brother more, which is a plus.

Offline QKO

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Re: GUNS and GUN SKILLS Balance v1.3.2
« Reply #16 on: September 22, 2013, 08:13:30 am »
The light flak has way more velocity, precision and rate of fire. Three seconds of fire and one second of travel time easily allow a 1 clip kill on all but the goldfish, galleon or squid. In what way do you think it should be improved?
I'd like to see it back to its previous damage(per shot) or at least have it improved half way. And no, without buffing(I haven't tested this with buffing) you cannot kill the goldfish, galleon or squid. Those ships all have more hp than the practice dummy. And bringing us back to the mortar: more damage per shot, more shots and an easier arc as it is now. So that thing kills within 8 shots, that's half its clip.

Offline Alistair MacBain

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Re: GUNS and GUN SKILLS Balance v1.3.2
« Reply #17 on: September 22, 2013, 08:19:55 am »
One clip of light flak (not buffed no ammo) deals actual 630 dmg to a unarmored hull.
If we now take ammo into consideration it probably can kill most ships within one clip.

Offline QKO

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Re: GUNS and GUN SKILLS Balance v1.3.2
« Reply #18 on: September 22, 2013, 10:35:39 am »
One clip of light flak (not buffed no ammo) deals actual 630 dmg to a unarmored hull.
If we now take ammo into consideration it probably can kill most ships within one clip.
Now go to the ship list and point out to me which ship has less than 630 hp.

Offline N-Sunderland

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Re: GUNS and GUN SKILLS Balance v1.3.2
« Reply #19 on: September 22, 2013, 10:51:47 am »
One clip of light flak (not buffed no ammo) deals actual 630 dmg to a unarmored hull.
If we now take ammo into consideration it probably can kill most ships within one clip.
Now go to the ship list and point out to me which ship has less than 630 hp.

Don't forget the buff hammer and other ammo types...

Offline Alistair MacBain

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Re: GUNS and GUN SKILLS Balance v1.3.2
« Reply #20 on: September 22, 2013, 11:19:14 am »
Hm ok i should have done the total match b4. I expected you to get over 700 dmg with charged but its just 682. The pyra has 700 health so u need to add some dmg with ur secondary weapon. If thats a gat that makes 6 extra shots from the gat. Caught me a bid there ^^.
With buff its actually 818 dmg. So you can kill a ship with one clip if you get the right timing and so on. Cause pyra has 700 and spire has 750.
Oh and according to some patch notes the mob has actually 600 Hull health ... ;).
Not sure how high the armor values are for the rest of ships but the squid got just 220.
Would assume sth in the 400-450. That would give you the posibility to kill a enemy instantly at a range of 600 (possible to hit every shot i think) if you get to point two mercs and a light flak at the enemy. And thats sth a mob or even a good team can do.
But well its much of theory here.
Its the point if you want the flak to fit the same role as the mortar or not.
Yes the flak needs a buff. But i think its not the dmg that needs one. I say its the range. Get it to sth 1500+ and it is a good sniper weapon. It doesnt have to do the same as the mortar. Kill in one clip. In the case its a real sniper weapon and not just have double the range of the mortar thats fine. At least for me ...
A sniper doesnt have to kill with one clip. That would be pretty unfair if you ask me.

Offline Serenum

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Re: GUNS and GUN SKILLS Balance v1.3.2
« Reply #21 on: September 22, 2013, 12:54:14 pm »
I like the new Banshee. Feels much more effective.

Offline QKO

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Re: GUNS and GUN SKILLS Balance v1.3.2
« Reply #22 on: September 22, 2013, 01:45:06 pm »
Hm ok i should have done the total match b4. I expected you to get over 700 dmg with charged but its just 682. The pyra has 700 health so u need to add some dmg with ur secondary weapon. If thats a gat that makes 6 extra shots from the gat. Caught me a bid there ^^.
With buff its actually 818 dmg. So you can kill a ship with one clip if you get the right timing and so on. Cause pyra has 700 and spire has 750.
Oh and according to some patch notes the mob has actually 600 Hull health ... ;).
Not sure how high the armor values are for the rest of ships but the squid got just 220.
Would assume sth in the 400-450. That would give you the posibility to kill a enemy instantly at a range of 600 (possible to hit every shot i think) if you get to point two mercs and a light flak at the enemy. And thats sth a mob or even a good team can do.
But well its much of theory here.
Its the point if you want the flak to fit the same role as the mortar or not.
Yes the flak needs a buff. But i think its not the dmg that needs one. I say its the range. Get it to sth 1500+ and it is a good sniper weapon. It doesnt have to do the same as the mortar. Kill in one clip. In the case its a real sniper weapon and not just have double the range of the mortar thats fine. At least for me ...
A sniper doesnt have to kill with one clip. That would be pretty unfair if you ask me.
There's already the artemis for that range.  The damage buff by itself still means the ship can be repaired in time before a full clip can be fired meaning that effectively, you'd be more likely to get 4 proper hits(like it was in the previous patch) unless they have more hull armor, which where you can get like 5 or maybe 6. Furthermore, having to go through all the effort of special rounds, buffing and getting the right distance due to arming time, only adds to why the mortar is staying the superior choice for everyone (and their mother). The gun is easier to aim, but it just doesn't kill anything.

Offline Alistair MacBain

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Re: GUNS and GUN SKILLS Balance v1.3.2
« Reply #23 on: September 22, 2013, 02:33:04 pm »
Wait do i understand you right?
You agree that it shouldnt outright kill in one clip?
It now has a maxdmg of 682. Already killing the mob instantly and probably the squid. If you add just a little bid to that you already break the 700 needed for the pyra and 50 more then you break the spire.
You cant buff its dmg without giving it a instagib potential for most of the ships.
And yeah i always forgot about the artemis explosive dmg. But the Artemis has 60 explosive dmg. Thats less dmg than the flak has which already instagibs some ships. If you buff the flak to hard it will totally outperform the mortar cause of its instagib potential. Maybe lower the range of the mortar again to allow the flak a wider window of good use. Im not sure at this but still i think buffing the flak dmg would be to much.
The poblem of the gun arent its stats. Its the niche people think it has to fit and i fear even muse isnt sure what the gun is supposed to do. Or at least i dont understand what they want the gun to do.
It needs a big enough niche where it can perform and not like now overlap so hard with the mortar.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2013, 02:35:23 pm by Alistair MacBain »

Offline N-Sunderland

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Re: GUNS and GUN SKILLS Balance v1.3.2
« Reply #24 on: September 22, 2013, 02:58:28 pm »
Artemis actually does 70 explosive damage per shot.

Offline Alistair MacBain

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Re: GUNS and GUN SKILLS Balance v1.3.2
« Reply #25 on: September 22, 2013, 03:12:29 pm »
Oh yeah used the dmg matrix numbers and didnt confirm with the latest patch notes.

Offline Wundsalz

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Attaboy!
« Reply #26 on: September 23, 2013, 04:36:24 pm »
I'm just here to adulate the devs for their latest patch. I really enjoy the changes so far. Apparently you've managed to eliminate the deadly gat+mortar/flak combo we've seen way too often for the last months without crowning an obvious new meta build. Judging based on my ingame experience since the last patch, there seems to be a way richer diversity of ship builds now and I think it's safe to state that we've currently got more viable fleet setups than we've ever had before (at least since may, when I started to play this game). So here's an attaboy to whoever is responsible for the latest balance changes - keep up the good work!

Offline Captain Blueberry

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Re: GUNS and GUN SKILLS Balance v1.3.2
« Reply #27 on: September 24, 2013, 03:42:26 am »
So many viable fun builds to play now. I just played a junker with front artemis and artemis/gat on the side and I enjoyed it. It didn't kill as fast but it is a viable build against the 1 1/2 ships like pyra/goldfish.

In Short: the Game has just become even more interesting, thank you!
« Last Edit: September 24, 2013, 03:44:11 am by Captain Blueberry »

Offline Zenark

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Re: GUNS and GUN SKILLS Balance v1.3.2
« Reply #28 on: September 24, 2013, 10:52:45 am »
Diverse build = Fun. That's why I never flew meta XD
I'm glad people are starting to realize this.

Offline Captain Smollett

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Re: GUNS and GUN SKILLS Balance v1.3.2
« Reply #29 on: September 24, 2013, 03:06:04 pm »
I say its the range. Get it to sth 1500+ and it is a good sniper weapon. It doesnt have to do the same as the mortar. Kill in one clip. In the case its a real sniper weapon and not just have double the range of the mortar thats fine. At least for me ...
A sniper doesnt have to kill with one clip. That would be pretty unfair if you ask me.

The flak is currently capable of two clip kills at 1700 M range with lesmok, it is an incredible long range weapon. 

I'm not convinced that the light flak is underpowered but I do think it's useful to have the conversation since it is certainly still underutilized. 

Here are two things that I think could make the gun more attractive to players without it losing it's niche or overpowering it:

Increase firing speed - I'd personally like to see a slight rate of fire increase on the gun (so that it's somewhere around 2.25-3 shots per second).  It would help solidify its position as the dependable precision finisher; enabling the gun to fire quicker could help ensure gunners get their shots into narrow kill windows on ships.

Decrease the arming distance - Admittedly I'm a bit biased here as I've always been on the fence about arming time for the flak however that debate aside; 300 meters is a considerable arm time, and I think more than the gun deserves.