Author Topic: Firing mechanism and damage explanation  (Read 39086 times)

Offline awkm

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Firing mechanism and damage explanation
« on: March 06, 2013, 01:04:36 pm »
This appeared in Q&A so I'm reposting.  This does not go over damage multipliers, I think that's pretty self explanatory.

Multipliers and general gun info can be found here:
http://gunsoficarus.com/gameplay/weapons/

These tables are dynamic and are most up to date.

Let me clear some stuff up.

Types of firing mechanisms:
  • Raycast—A straight line of a certain range is projected from the barrel point.  If this line intersects a hitbox, a hit will be registered.  No projectile is fired in actually world space.  Guns that are raycast include the gatling and carronade.  Raycast weapons are not affected by muzzle speed or gravity.
  • Projectile—A projectile is spawn in world space and shot through the air according to several variables along a ballistic arc.  If said projectile collides with a hitbox, a hit will be registered.  Most of the guns in the game are projectile based.
  • Particle—Particles are weird and it's only the flamethrower for now.  They spread, they rise, they act like particles and they're weird.  Did I say that already?  Just deal with it :P

Important variables affecting firing mechanism
  • Gravity—How much gravity is applied to a projectile, more gravity the more quickly its arc will drop.
  • Muzzle Speed—How fast the projectile is traveling in m/s.  Muzzle speed and gravity are related in that if you have lots of gravity but high muzzle speed, the arc will be very wide and the projectile will travel farther before significant drop occurs.  High gravity with low muzzle speed will cause the the projectile to drop quickly.  Imagine a horizontal force (muzzle speed) vs. a vertical force (gravity) because that's just how it works.  Physics 101.
  • Jitter—A number in degrees that is randomly selected from 0 to the max jitter allowed for that gun each time a raycast or projectile is spawned.  The initial rotation of said raycast or projectile will inherit this randomly generated jitter from 0 to max jitter.  This is to simulate recoil.  Yeah it's hacky, trust me we know and we're not happy with it, but we never had time to do recoil for real.  We're working on it and trying to fix this soon.
  • Arming Time—A number in seconds where if projectile hits before arming time is reached, only primary damage is applied.  Therefore, full damage potential range is Arming Time * Muzzle Speed.  Lumberjack and Heavy Flak have arming time.

Primary Secondary Dmg
  • Primary—Will apply damage to the part that is hit.  May penetrate slightly based on penetration (in seconds, penetration * muzzle speed = distance penetrated, only for projectile weapons.  This number is either 0 or very very small so don't worry.).
  • Secondary—Once projectile stops moving (post penetration), secondary damage will be applied.
  • Area of Effect—The radius in meters of possible secondary dmg area of effect.  Components caught in this range will have secondary damage applied.  Epicenter is where the projectile stops moving post penetration.

And Alex (Watchmaker, and on of our talented programmers) covers the damage transfer stuff:
Overflow damage on a single hit does not transfer.

Subsequent hits transfer from the component that was hit to the "hull component" - meaning they apply damage to armor first, if any remains.

We've been unclear in the past on the terms for the two health bars on the hull (I try to refer to them as armor and health), which is probably part of the confusion.

Each hit (projectile, explosion, gatling or carronade ray/pellet) deals its damage to a single location, in a lump.  Transferred hits function exactly as if you actually hit, say, a hull hitbox instead of a balloon hitbox.  None of the balloon/engine/gun multipliers are applied; multipliers for hull armor or health are applied according to the hull's current state.

Note that there is a slightly weird case where a single hit deals more damage than remaining hull armor.  Currently, in this case, the base damage is multiplied by the armor modifiers, and any overflow of that modified value is applied directly to hull health.

And to clarify, mechanical components that are dead also transfer damage to hull.  E.g. the front gun on a Goldfish will transfer damage dealt to it to the hull if the gun is dead.  If this was not the case, you'll have a huge shield in the front of the ship to ram with etc.



One thing that's covered in the other topic and not here is damage multipliers when something is dead.  If the balloon is completely dead and you fire at it, the damage is transferred to the hull and hull multipliers are applied, not balloon.  You just get a bigger target area, not more damage per shot.  Although as Alex mentions in the quoted area, there is a discrepancy with this when one single hit destroys the balloon or whatever and there is damage left over.

I think that's the most of what's in play.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2013, 03:37:22 pm by Watchmaker »

Offline Pickle

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Re: Firing mechanism and damage explanation
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2013, 01:24:32 pm »
And to clarify, mechanical components that are dead also transfer damage to hull.  E.g. the front gun on a Goldfish will transfer damage dealt to it to the hull if the gun is dead.  If this was not the case, you'll have a huge shield in the front of the ship to ram with etc.

One thing that's covered in the other topic and not here is damage multipliers when something is dead.  If the balloon is completely dead and you fire at it, the damage is transferred to the hull and hull multipliers are applied, not balloon.  You just get a bigger target area, not more damage per shot.  Although as Alex mentions in the quoted area, there is a discrepancy with this when one single hit destroys the balloon or whatever and there is damage left over.

And to clarify what Watchmaker has said on the other thread, the damage transfer from a dead component is to the "hull component", i.e. damage will be taken by the armour until the armour is destroyed and then the hull health.



(is it too late to fix the game so that "hull" is a component comprising a "chassis" protected by "armour", or some other distinction to avoid triplele-duty with the word "hull" - hull refers to the total component comprising the hull and the armour, it refers to the critical ship health bar on it's own in general terminology, and it even refers specifically to armour in the damage reporting system)

Offline Watchmaker

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Re: Firing mechanism and damage explanation
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2013, 03:41:38 pm »
Part of the hotfix after 1.1.5 changed this very slightly, removing the overflow damage from destroyed armor (which was using the "wrong" multipliers, for armor rather than health).  Any excess damage on the hit that destroys armor now vanishes.

To stave off possible confusion: note that when using an explosive projectile, the direct-hit damage and the explosion damage are treated separately; if the direct hit wipes out the armor, the secondary explosion damage is still applied to hull health (appropriately modified for its damage type).

Offline Lochiel

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Re: Firing mechanism and damage explanation
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2013, 11:35:51 am »
If damage dealt to components is passed through to the armor and then hull... does this mean that AOE damage that hits multiple destroyed components will do more armor/hull damage than AOE damage that doesn't hit any destroyed components?

Offline Watchmaker

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Re: Firing mechanism and damage explanation
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2013, 12:10:00 pm »
No, because the single instance of AOE damage will never damage a single component (the hull in this case) more than once.

Offline -Muse- Cullen

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Re: Firing mechanism and damage explanation
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2013, 01:36:53 pm »
I updated the Wiki with the relevant information here. I also included a link back to this post.

Offline HamsterIV

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Re: Firing mechanism and damage explanation
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2013, 02:59:49 pm »
Could some one from Muse explain how the physics of the harpoon rope work?
What causes it to detach?
How is force applied to the harpooning and the harpooned ship?
What airship properties (drag, mass, impact location) effect the harpoon physics?
Is there a timer between when the harpoon strikes and when the rope goes "tight"?
Is the thrust of your engines lessened while harpooned?

There seem to be a lot of variables in play for this mechanic and I am not sure how they all work together.

Offline awkm

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Re: Firing mechanism and damage explanation
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2013, 03:35:14 pm »
Could some one from Muse explain how the physics of the harpoon rope work?
What causes it to detach?
How is force applied to the harpooning and the harpooned ship?
What airship properties (drag, mass, impact location) effect the harpoon physics?
Is there a timer between when the harpoon strikes and when the rope goes "tight"?
Is the thrust of your engines lessened while harpooned?

There seem to be a lot of variables in play for this mechanic and I am not sure how they all work together.


This is complicated question but here is the tl;dr version:

  • A harpoon will detach automatically at 120 seconds
  • Max length is 600m before breaking
  • The harpoon will apply a constant pulling force (right when harpoon makes contact with hull) from the ship that fired the harpoon to the point where the harpoon is attached.  Movement and overall affect is similar to if the two ship bodies are afloat in water (air is also a liquid) but of course with the additional Y-axis movement.  It responds 100% accurately to how force would affect these bodies in liquid based on the two points of attachment as well as the drag profile of each body
  • Engine force output is not affected

With that said... it's extremely difficult to predict the movement on your own.  It also takes into account engine movement and will further augment the outcome of these effects, making them even harder to predict.  We're looking into simplifying this system to make it less real and more gamey.  Easier to predict and actually do something that you'd like it to e.g. maintain range instead of pulling all of the time (because that's not always helpful).

However, I've heard that from the recent pull force reduction that harpoons are useful in some situations.  Although this is a small subset of the player set that can actually use them effectively.

Nothing is set in stone right now.  It's a decently sized feature request.

Offline Gambrill

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Re: Firing mechanism and damage explanation
« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2013, 03:24:41 pm »
Could some one from Muse explain how the physics of the harpoon rope work?
What causes it to detach?
How is force applied to the harpooning and the harpooned ship?
What airship properties (drag, mass, impact location) effect the harpoon physics?
Is there a timer between when the harpoon strikes and when the rope goes "tight"?
Is the thrust of your engines lessened while harpooned?

There seem to be a lot of variables in play for this mechanic and I am not sure how they all work together.


This is complicated question but here is the tl;dr version:

  • A harpoon will detach automatically at 120 seconds
  • Max length is 600m before breaking
  • The harpoon will apply a constant pulling force (right when harpoon makes contact with hull) from the ship that fired the harpoon to the point where the harpoon is attached.  Movement and overall affect is similar to if the two ship bodies are afloat in water (air is also a liquid) but of course with the additional Y-axis movement.  It responds 100% accurately to how force would affect these bodies in liquid based on the two points of attachment as well as the drag profile of each body
  • Engine force output is not affected

With that said... it's extremely difficult to predict the movement on your own.  It also takes into account engine movement and will further augment the outcome of these effects, making them even harder to predict.  We're looking into simplifying this system to make it less real and more gamey.  Easier to predict and actually do something that you'd like it to e.g. maintain range instead of pulling all of the time (because that's not always helpful).

However, I've heard that from the recent pull force reduction that harpoons are useful in some situations.  Although this is a small subset of the player set that can actually use them effectively.

Nothing is set in stone right now.  It's a decently sized feature request.


how about when on the weapon if you hold 'S' it pulls? that way the captain can tell the crew member Exactly when he wants it to pull.

Offline uriak

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Re: Firing mechanism and damage explanation
« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2013, 04:46:26 pm »
Yeah the ability to pull, or at least stop the rope at a certain distance would be handy :)

I'm not sure if there is a topic for this, but is there a place for finding about rotation limits for each weapons? Are they weapon based, or ship based or both? This is an information that is harder to find that the damage.

Offline Moo

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Re: Firing mechanism and damage explanation
« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2013, 05:15:26 pm »
Rotation limits are weapon-based. I'm not sure the figures were ever given for most guns though?

Offline naufrago

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Re: Firing mechanism and damage explanation
« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2013, 06:28:24 pm »
I'm curious how the flare gun works. If it hits multiple components, does it set all of them on fire or just the first thing it hits?

Also, the info for the flare gun on the weapons page seems to be a bit out of date (ammo is different, in-game shows secondary damage as explosive(?)). Would appreciate knowing the stats for it.

Offline N-Sunderland

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Re: Firing mechanism and damage explanation
« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2013, 09:33:10 pm »
I'm curious how the flare gun works. If it hits multiple components, does it set all of them on fire or just the first thing it hits?

The flare gun has an AoE of 0, so it's therefore impossible for it to hit multiple components, even with burst.

Offline naufrago

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Re: Firing mechanism and damage explanation
« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2013, 12:00:07 am »
I'm curious how the flare gun works. If it hits multiple components, does it set all of them on fire or just the first thing it hits?

The flare gun has an AoE of 0, so it's therefore impossible for it to hit multiple components, even with burst.

It may have an AoE of 0, but i've hit multiple things with one shot on numerous occasions, typically gun and hull or hull and balloon. I once hit a pyramidion's hull, side gun, then balloon from shooting underneath. Once it hits something, it doesn't stop immediately.

So yeah, I've been using it extensively the past few days and I'm really curious how it works.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2013, 12:31:08 am by naufrago »

Offline Captain Smollett

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Re: Firing mechanism and damage explanation
« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2013, 01:29:42 am »
There is a bit of travel through for lots of the projectiles in the game though the devs never tell us how much.

I know frequently prior to 1.14 that a mercury shot could break a weapon and the hull in one shot. This was due to it traveling through the gun to hit both the gun and the hull.

Maybe this is what you observed?