Author Topic: Lesmok 1.3.1  (Read 31562 times)

Offline awkm

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Re: Lesmok 1.3.1
« Reply #15 on: August 12, 2013, 05:54:32 pm »
@Smollett

I don't understand what you're trying to say.  The effective range of Heavy Flak with new Lesmok is actually longer (faster projectile speed).  Therefore it's arming time is also further out, armed at 432m to be exact.  So yes, the heavy is traveling farther before detonating (arming?).  At the end of the day, it's total effective range is 1814m with Lesmok, +200m from before.

What this means is that you need to be farther away to get someone outside arming range, and only have 1 ammo before you need to reload.  It kind of sucks, sure.  I can look into decreasing arming time for Heavy Flak in general but this will also bring about other changes.

Offline Sammy B. T.

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Re: Lesmok 1.3.1
« Reply #16 on: August 12, 2013, 06:07:33 pm »
Lesmok flamer is now ridiculous.

Offline awkm

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Re: Lesmok 1.3.1
« Reply #17 on: August 12, 2013, 06:16:18 pm »
Lesmok flamer is now ridiculous.

I am totally okay with this hahahahah.

Offline naufrago

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Re: Lesmok 1.3.1
« Reply #18 on: August 12, 2013, 06:18:34 pm »
If the problem is with the gun, why not just change the gun? Increase reload time, decrease rate of fire, reduce its damage... there are so many different ways you can further limit the effectiveness of the merc without altering the ammo, which comes with a lot of collateral damage.

Offline Squidslinger Gilder

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Re: Lesmok 1.3.1
« Reply #19 on: August 12, 2013, 06:32:10 pm »
Merc is already slow as is. Even if you change the gun and nerf it more, it'll still be used in tandem with 2-4 mercs. This will only further to make sniper battles last even longer.

Plus it'll make getting stuff like the 2km kill achievement even worse. I've toyed with it a little already and found it to be totally merc dependent and even then you have to hope the opposing ship doesn't decide to charge you. Keeping the range at 2km is just nuts, specially when you need to do it 100 times.

Offline awkm

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Re: Lesmok 1.3.1
« Reply #20 on: August 12, 2013, 06:41:14 pm »
The specific problem that needed to be solved was noobs using double Field Gun Pyramidions and sniper camping.

Offline Captain Smollett

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Re: Lesmok 1.3.1
« Reply #21 on: August 12, 2013, 11:18:34 pm »
@Smollett

I don't understand what you're trying to say.  The effective range of Heavy Flak with new Lesmok is actually longer (faster projectile speed).  Therefore it's arming time is also further out, armed at 432m to be exact.  So yes, the heavy is traveling farther before detonating (arming?).  At the end of the day, it's total effective range is 1814m with Lesmok, +200m from before.

What this means is that you need to be farther away to get someone outside arming range, and only have 1 ammo before you need to reload.  It kind of sucks, sure.  I can look into decreasing arming time for Heavy Flak in general but this will also bring about other changes.

I didn't articulate too well before; basically what I'm trying to say is that even prior to 1.31, the heavy flak was a very high risk high reward gun and arguably one of the most difficult guns to truly master.  All ships in goi take at least two very precise heavy flak shots to kill, shots that hit neither balloons, engines or guns and land in the 3-7 second window of an enemy ships armor being broken. 

Often the gunner will only have one chance to make these shots when the enemy has his armor down & before he's entered into arm time.  Once in arm time it's unlikely the enemy will lose armor enough to be killed before the ship firing the flak is killed itself.

Lesmok essentially broadened the time that a flak could be lethal in giving a greater chance for the gunner to land the perfect shot &  save his ships life from the charging opponent.  The flak with lesmok was lethal up to 1.6km in one salvo and gave the gunner a greater chance of felling the foe before they in turn did so to them. 

Although now lesmok gives the gun a range of 1.8km, it's not really an effective range, since ships can shrug off 1 shot, rebuild their armor and kill the flak firing ship before their armor is dropped again thereby heavily reducing the high reward garnered from such a high risk weapon.

My proposal to offset the lesmok changes would be to allow the Flak bullet to survive longer in flight and thereby increase the lethal effective range of regular ammunition.  As for the current arming time on heavy flak, it seems to be just fine as it is.

edit- TL/DR - The heavy flak losing the ability to kill at long range due to the lesmok change is a huge nerf, perhaps increasing the range (not the speed) of the shot will help offset this large nerf.

Offline James T. Kirk

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Re: Lesmok 1.3.1
« Reply #22 on: August 13, 2013, 01:19:00 am »
Lesmok flamer is now ridiculous.

I am totally okay with this hahahahah.

As am I.

And I can think of a couple of other people who are too.

Offline Calico Jack

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Re: Lesmok 1.3.1
« Reply #23 on: August 13, 2013, 07:16:19 am »
Carronade and heavy flak both with 1 round in lesmok are rendered less effective imo. I played both today, prior to the update carronade was a viable close range alternative to the LJ.

Offline Mr Arrow Captl Fello

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Re: Lesmok 1.3.1
« Reply #24 on: August 13, 2013, 08:18:21 am »
I think muse should spend more time reducing the barrier to entry/enjoyment for new players then nurfing guns based  On what the top echelon teams are mastering.  The nurfing of gun accuracy only h urts new players and has little effect on  teams who spend 10 or more hours  practicing a single skill...as example find me any player under 500 games who ENJOYS using the lumberjack or the scylla, let alone with any proficiency.  This change, like many others over the past year, that seem idiotic as they simply lower the enjoyment factor and the ability of new players to be competitive... in the end might be a waist of time...let just continue this path and replace all guns with the Icarus gun...so every ship is balanced and unplayable and everyone leaves the community and I can go back to playing Awsomenauts
edit:
let me clarify....the reason why noobs are using sniper builds is because muse has made every other gun useless or uinaccessible to new players, and this is all they have left
« Last Edit: August 13, 2013, 08:30:55 am by Mr Arrow Captl Fello »

Offline Calico Jack

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Re: Lesmok 1.3.1
« Reply #25 on: August 13, 2013, 08:28:35 am »
I think muse should spend more time reducing the barrier to entry/enjoyment for new players then nurfing guns based  On what the top echelon teams are mastering.  The nurfing of gun accuracy only h urts new players and has little effect on  teams who spend 10 or more hours  practicing a single skill...as example find me any player under 500hrs who ENJOYS using the lumberjack or the scylla, let alone with any proficiency.  This change, like many others over the past year, that seem idiotic as they simply lower the enjoyment factor and the ability of new players to be competitive... in the end might be a waist of time...let just continue this path and replace all guns with the Icarus gun...so every ship is balanced and unplayable and everyone leaves the community and I can go back to playing Awsomenauts

I agree - I suggest a UI for toggling adjustable restrictive settings for competitive play would be better than global changes.

Offline Keon

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Re: Lesmok 1.3.1
« Reply #26 on: August 13, 2013, 09:31:23 am »
---

I agree - I suggest a UI for toggling adjustable restrictive settings for competitive play would be better than global changes.

So Cogs would be a completely different game from actual GOI? That's not a realistic idea.

Anyhow, can't test right now, so I can't see how heavy flak is or anything.

Offline RearAdmiralZill

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Re: Lesmok 1.3.1
« Reply #27 on: August 13, 2013, 09:34:24 am »
I don't like how the new lesmok has rendered the light flak useless as now a light mortar shoots like a laser, and still has more shots than the light flak ever would.

Offline N-Sunderland

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Re: Lesmok 1.3.1
« Reply #28 on: August 13, 2013, 09:37:29 am »
I don't like how the new lesmok has rendered the light flak useless as now a light mortar shoots like a laser, and still has more shots than the light flak ever would.

The light flak was already hurt badly by 1.3, but this is nailing the coffin shut, now that you bring it up.

Another thing that worries me is the sheer effectiveness of the lumber at long range with the new lesmok. I'll have to test it more, though...

Offline RearAdmiralZill

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Re: Lesmok 1.3.1
« Reply #29 on: August 13, 2013, 09:43:31 am »
I don't like how the new lesmok has rendered the light flak useless as now a light mortar shoots like a laser, and still has more shots than the light flak ever would.

The light flak was already hurt badly by 1.3, but this is nailing the coffin shut, now that you bring it up.

Another thing that worries me is the sheer effectiveness of the lumber at long range with the new lesmok. I'll have to test it more, though...

Nah LJ is pretty nasty. It depends though. At max range, it's easier to hit with, but the arming time gets larger so it's not all buff. I think it evens out with one less ammo yet more consistent hits in terms of dps.