No tolerance for Deviation from Strategic norm

[roder]

Perhaps this gentlemen ran into me...

I did run into you, I thought you were a very good pilot/captain that directed well.

The problem is other captains that shove their orders down your throat haha To respond to the other guy that said they give advice to newbies so they don't ragequit when they find their build is ineffective, I don't think they expect to do entirely well when they are first starting out. But going on about how they are not playing right or playing bad might also have a hand in them ragequtting hah

[dragonmere]

As said, the vast majority of new players greatly appreciate the advice. People like you are in a severe minority. I'm sorry I offended you by offering my help, but I fully intend to continue.

I don't actually recall belittling anyone at any point in time just for being new or not understanding mechanics, but I'll be very mindful of that in the future. Thank you for the constructive criticism. Have a nice day.

[Machiavelliest]

I absolutely cannot stand it when other pilots quit because they want all engineers, or they don't want two gunners.  If you want to try to run the perfect loadout with the perfect crew, join a tournament.  For what amounts to a pick-up game at the public ball courts, get over yourself and just play the damn game.

If you're not willing to flex your ship for the crew and expect the crew to do all of the changing for a public game, you're a captain in slot selection only.

[dragonmere]

I want to be very clear here, that I am only admitting to offering unwanted advice to rodereve. I only vaguely remember asking if he wanted a critique on his loadout in one single game, he said "no" and left the room.

I am not the type to make these flat demands, and quit the game or freak out if they aren't followed. I always offer advice, and may possibly be guilty of using definite terms like "must" or "best" when describing optimal load outs, and I will work on that. And yes, I have and will always request that my crew goes (mostly) engineers, with a specific loadout. But I do this to give our ship and team an advantage, and I reserve it as my right of a captain.

The only time I lose my cool is when dealing with a player who refuses to do anything I ask him on my ship, such as preferring to spend most of the round jumping in front of the captain instead of gunning OR repairing. Even then it takes towards the end of the round or a few complete rounds before I actually get vocally upset. I am not sure how else to deal with players who clearly have no interest in playing a team-based game.

I have seen, since the TGS influx, a very small number players who are very violently averse to ANY suggestions or tips.  I really appreciate this thread, as now I have a bit of insight, and know what to work on with my teaching approach in order to make everyone happy.

rodereve, check your PMs, I sent you an item code for an engineer outfit, in a misguided effort to make up for any inconvenience I may or may not have caused you.

[Sonoskay]

To just tell someone what to do. especialy another captain is kinda rude. Commands durring battle are one thing but a persons set up is another...

But what i dont understand is why people dont take it upon them selves to either ask questoins about what works or simply look it up. I looked at the wiki and learned alot about what works and what doesnt. Doesnt mean i wont try some "oddball" set ups but background info is very important.. and if you couldnt give a straight argument why you are doing the things you are then in some cases it may be better to take the advise givin to you...

[Squidslinger Gilder]

I absolutely cannot stand it when other pilots quit because they want all engineers, or they don't want two gunners.  If you want to try to run the perfect loadout with the perfect crew, join a tournament.  For what amounts to a pick-up game at the public ball courts, get over yourself and just play the damn game.

If you're not willing to flex your ship for the crew and expect the crew to do all of the changing for a public game, you're a captain in slot selection only.

Depends on the ship and the players. If you've got a bunch of ADD kids on your ship running around spraying ammo at clouds instead of the enemy then a pilot has every right to leave them to die. You also have the violent players. I've seen them and had them on my ship before. They are not something that should be put up with by anyone.

If some powder monkey quick joiners hop in and start to ruin a crew by not listening or doing the above then let the pilot quit. He shouldn't have to put up with that. Heck I now outright ask the players leave game. If they don't I give them reason to leave by exiting battle and/or taring the guns so they don't have a way to amuse themselves.

Pub matches and tourney matches are each their own things but Pub matches shouldn't be an excuse to play daycare.

[Machiavelliest]

I'm talking about in the lobby, just loadouts alone.  What you're talking about is different.

[Brick Hardcastle]

I absolutely cannot stand it when other pilots quit because they want all engineers, or they don't want two gunners.  If you want to try to run the perfect loadout with the perfect crew, join a tournament.  For what amounts to a pick-up game at the public ball courts, get over yourself and just play the damn game.

If you're not willing to flex your ship for the crew and expect the crew to do all of the changing for a public game, you're a captain in slot selection only.

This is rather melodramatic. Like most of the veteran captains here, I am delighted to play with newer players who are eager to listen and learn. Players who ignore me or shout obscenities at me when I politely request that there are at least two engineers on the ship I don't really enjoy playing with. If a new player says "Can I play with this class/ship/loadout because I want to practice it and/or get the achievements?" I would be only too happy to oblige. It's the players who are obtuse and don't even attempt to constructively communicate why they're doing what they're doing I eventually give up on for a better crew.

Likewise, I once had a level one co-pilot who flew a squid, picked all mercuries and parked directly in front of a galleon's left broadside. This was a little frustrating and didn't work out too well. Still, he listened to me carefully when I explained to him a better strategy and loadout to try with the squid, and how to use it effectively with an ally, and we were winning matches in no time (by the way, this wasn't Gilder, as funny as that would be XD). I was really happy about this. If a co-pilot wants to ignore me or insult me when I'm trying to work with him and give him advice, however, I see little point in playing with them other than out of a perverse curiosity to see how badly they do.

If I'm engineering and a captain asks me to go with a certain loadout, then I'll respect it, even if I disagree, because it's his/her ship and they know how they want it to function. It's no fun for the captain if I just ignore him and go pilot/gunner when he wants me to buff and repair his engines and hull.

Just to summarize; communication is the key. It's fine if you want to play a second/third gunner, or an unconventional ship and loadout, but at least talk to the rest of your team about it first. If they're not ok with it, that's a shame, but there are plenty of other matches you can join.

[Machiavelliest]

So I'm melodramatic, but you agree with me?

[Brick Hardcastle]

The phrasing was melodramatic. It placed too much emphasis on the captain just "sucking it up" and dealing with whatever hand he was dealt or otherwise not being worthy of being called a true captain. I was trying to reiterate as others have here, that it cuts both ways. If you actually agree with what I'm saying then fair enough, but if so I think that point could've been made in a more moderate tone.

[Machiavelliest]

I don't do moderate on forums.  It's my only excuse to be an asshole and have no repercussions.

I do think tolerance is an important part of a captain's qualities.  The responsibilities for training crew members and ensuring that a good atmosphere is the captain's.  In that vein, the captains govern the mood of the community, in a way.  I won't insult your intelligence to enumerate, but the intensity of some people in dictating crew composition is overdone.  I also end up playing during the Russian surge.  I dislike profiling, but it can be a demographic-related problem.

[Echoez]

I'm not the most experienced captain ever, but I can manage to fly I guess and I realy appreciate it when people listen to what I have to say, which in the rare occassion that I even need to point it out, is usually about people going double gunner on my ship.

I know people like to use the guns a lot, especially the newer players, but the ship simply doesn't have enough maintainance like that, especially when I'm on a Spire or Junker (or any ship realy), I simply need more people to repair things.

I also know that ships like the Pyra and Junker don't realy need any gunners on board, but I don't realy mind having one since it brings some variety and some nice ammo.

Still, I like it when my crew actually accomadates to the needs of the ship, stubborn people simply won't have me as a captain cause they simply refuse to co-operate with me, which is not the point of this game.

[Enjix]

Unfortunately you will find people who will want you to change your entire ship if the set-up doesn't make much sense to them. The good and the bad part of this is that it's largely driven by player rank, as that's the first impression that is made. If people see that the pilot in question is rank 1-3, they often assume they don't know the most accepted builds and will try to sway them in that direction, one way or another, if the captain is rank 5+, then they can run some pretty ridiculous things and no one will call them out on is, because it is assumed they know what they are doing. Note, this is all thrown out the window after the first match, as then everyone sees what your real skill level is, be it better or worse than what the players in the lobby assumed.

As far as not listening to your own captain in the lobby... please do. Their ship is designed to work a certain way and everyone does have a distinct role, both of which is determined by the captain. Who fills that role is a different story, and you can request to swap positions, but it is there regardless. There is also a mathematical limit to how much one engineer can do, no matter how skilled, and by forging your own path and not listening to your captain, all you are doing is causing more stress for everyone else in the ship.

[HamsterIV]

As a 5+ leveled captain people still call me out on some of my experimental builds. I try to warn my crew that I am running an experiment, and even explain the bizarre logic behind the build over lobby chat so that the other team knows what I am trying to do.

Usually saying "trust me" is enough to silence my critics pre game, and "ok ok I will go back to a normal build" or "see I am not as dumb as I look" (depending on if it worked or not) is enough to silence them post game.

[Sammy B. T.]

Unless something blatantly doesn't make sense (dual flaks on front of a Pyra) I try not to be too demanding about changing set ups. Instead, if the person is a talker, I ask them to explain their ship to me. If they explain their ship in a way that at least contains some confulted logic, I will generally say "Huh, interesting." Then I will play the next round, get stomped, and then give some suggestions next round (unless of course it worked out well...it doesnt though).

I do a similar thing to people who insist on being a gunner. I ask them which gun on my ship benefits greatly from having three ammo types and only one repair tool.