Level inflation and "noob problem"

[DJ Logicalia]

Don't listen to Maxy, Xylo. No one else does

It's great that you want to learn from the vets. You should keep trying to do that.

[Arturo Sanchez]

Don't listen to Maxy, Xylo. No one else does

It's great that you want to learn from the vets. You should keep trying to do that.

despite my points being parroted.

[Xylo Wenchbane]

@ Crank,

Yeah I can see your point, I guess it's more a social problem than a mechanic or gameplay problem. Apart from a sorting system like a vet/competitive lobby or a social system like kicks/block parties I'm not sure what else to suggest.

@ Maxy,

Totally missed the point there. Not angry about being called a newbie (I accept it since my playtime and experience is limited compared to everyone in this thread) I'm just sick of the 'broadstroke' paintbrush approach to newbies, I can see why it happens. Granted I'm not at the level of some of the players in this thread so I can't see all of the problems, and Crank is decent enough to point out the things I missed in regards to bad apples.

Also I don't really see your points being parroted. I'm pretty sure you're just complaining about the problem and blaming it on newer players. We should really be working together to try and suggest something to alleviate the issue somewhat.

@ DJ,

All good, takes more than a bittervet to throw me off. I do play EVE after all, tolerance to them is pretty high. xD The only difficulty encountered is the insta block which kinda cripples exposure to the better players. That's the gold right there, vets.

Back on topic though, the point made on tying novice to each class would help substantially and raising the limit from 8 to 12 or higher so players remain in novice with the restrictions enforced for longer periods. You could also have a forced tutorial with minimum tasks completed to proceed so it makes sure everyone goes through it.
 
On the interface and mechanics;
To help explain how ships work to newer captains and crews add a description of what its basic role in the team is. Basic strategies, crew stations and setups, etc. in the ship window when we click on names. Also a description and basic loadouts for each class would help, with light meta injected. The text pop ups mid match kind of help but plenty of newbies don't read them, expanding them probably won't help unless you make the damage icons obscenely noticeable so it forces players to solve the issues at hand. There should be a flight course for newer captains to try out so they can get a feel for ship movements/capabilities, try that out with each ship and maybe tailor it to each ship.

Right now if I play gunner I just look at the guns on ship and choose ammo accordingly most newbie captains aren't sure what works. As an engineer? Spanner/Mallet and Chemspray so I can practice chem cycles. I'm not so sure on the novice captaining as a good idea (this is where patient and experienced vets come in handy) but I guess it helps sort the gems from the filth.

On the social side;
Don't anyone say 'Oh we got YouTube for that'. No, no we don't, watching a game being played by someone else and actually playing it yourself are two different things. Sure you can learn all the tips and read about it on the old forums and the new, but if you can't use it effectively because of small details you missed or meta, it won't mean a thing unless you can pull it off effectively.
I've watched the videos both the basic overviews and the competitive matches but playing the game is something else, You can't pause mid match to look up most effective ammos for each gun, sure you'll remember some of the basic novice locked guns and the ammos which work well for them, like everything it comes with time and dedication.

Really the only other changes would be how lobbies work, vet lobbies and vets hosting 'Block parties' so all the bads can be blocked into oblivion. Forcing tutorials on newer players (I didn't try but I wonder if you can invite a crew and try out the different things on the ship as each class)


Final note to all, I'd be stoked to play with you guys, if you'll have me of course, and I promise I won't hijack boats or jump around uselessly (most of the time) =D Lobbies of Icarus can be fun but I paid to play this game not sit in matchmaking talking to random people on the internet.

[Xylo Wenchbane]

Sorry for the wall of text.

On the tutorial it could be reworked into stages with text and voice since some people seemingly refuse to read;

Have the basic gunning stage which we all know, Explain different ammo gun combos and how the guns should be used and of course encourage players to try them so they can see what is and isn't effective. Explain main role and any back ups that the meta uses.

Second stage would be the engineer, explain tools and what each is used for. Explain basic repair urgency orders, the difference between chem sprays and extinguishers, mallets and spanners, etc. Give them an idea of how battle stations work (Main engi, Gungineer)

Third stage give them the captains overview, let the player decide what ship to bring and what its loadout will be. Explain the crew forms/lobby capabilities (Ship names, recommending crew loatouts, etc. You could then give them the basic flight tutorial and explain pilot tools.

Then you can move onto the basic meta of how a ship should run, maybe the metamidion since it's really simple. What the loadout is and its intended role, what the engineers do, where the gunner should be, how to fly it and what basic tools and ammos to bring for that ship. Give them a spin on combat maneuvers and then let them be thrown into the game. You could throw some reading materials at them too, recommended forums posts, official dev guides, etc.

Award achievements  but no experience so players remain first level. Give them some virtual swag like the cap and hairstyles or whatever, probably dyes to colour code them better and attach them to each of the achievements or tasks so newbies are encouraged to finish the tutorial, give them some form of motivation.

[Omniraptor]

I vote for a special hat that is stuck to you and won't come off until you complete the tutorials

[nanoduckling]

Hi Xylo,
You like walls of text! I like walls of text too! My experiences here may be of interest to you. I've put some effort in trying to deal with our novices issues in the community. For a while I ran a novice clan specifically intended to provide novices with ways to avoid these problems. It was miserable and sucked a big chunk of the fun out of the game for me.

So I created the clan and built a bunch of rules for it, but recruitment was never really the objective. The aim was to find the gems in the rough who were wallowing in matchmaker. What I would do is join the matchmaker queue on my own, and if one of my more experienced friends wanted to join me I'd send them away and aim to play with the novices (experienced pilots typically have a bunch of folks looking to fly with them). To say this was a colourful experience is an understatement.

If I were pilotting I would politely suggest load-outs to players only to be met with a tirade of expletives, if I was lucky I'd get called a tryhard for having the audacity to want a ship that had a crew with vaguely useful equipment. If I were unlucky I'd be met with abuse questioning my sexual orientation and parents sexual habits. If I weren't piloting and dared to point out to that double flak pyras really are not a good idea, well, lets just say that didn't end well.

And I'm lucky, I'm a dude. Folks might be an ass to me but the things I heard if someone spoke while being female were just ugly. My block list got a healthy boost during this exercise.

So, I learned a few lessons doing this. Some of them aren't really relevant here (I could have pulled in more of the established clans on the exercise for instance, but my personal organizational failings don't really matter for the purpose of this thread). Others are. I'll share those below.

The first thing I will say is if you join the queue as an experienced player and are looking for personable folks consider immediately swapping teams when you are dropped in a lobby. I got no hard data on this, just that awful unreliable subjective experience thing. At high levels of play there really isn't much correlation between skill and friendliness. Ceres here is an excellent players, but he will also be the first to tell you he can be a bit of an ass at times (probably with a certain amount of pride in the fact). Logic just wants the world to be at peace bless him, but he is also a very good player. The same is not true at the lower levels of play. If you are really good and an ass people will still want to fly with you. If you are just an ass then no one wants to fly with you, and you will lose, lots. So what happens when a player with a high MMR joins the limited queue? The matchmaker balances the match by putting every bad novice it can find, and at low levels of play 'bad at the game' and 'a bit of a jerk' seem to correlate. That one jerk whose personal problems translate into problems communicating basic things like where they want people on their ship? Guess who your captain is.

Vets experiences of novices are coloured by this. I don't agree that it is a few bad apples as Xylo suggests, but I also don't think it is a forest of bad apples with that one golden granny smith hiding somewhere in a chest in that dungeon full of zombies next to that elusive vein of diamonds as some vets have implied.  There are lots of great novices out there, but if you are experienced you might not meet them because matchmaker has decided the best way to balance you is dump you in a lobby with the guy who insults anyone who dares to question his all flak junker.

Not sure tutorials are the problem. If you can read there is a tutorial available for almost every ship you can think of. Heck, I've written and continue to write a bunch of novice tutorials. When you are playing multiplayer games it is just common courtesy to get an understanding of the basics before playing with others. Many players don't have this attitude. Now Kamoba has a theory that the game is horribly marketed, which I'm inclined to agree with. I only found out about GoI from Extra Creditz, and the only adverts I see for it are in the same places I see things like CoD (Call of Duty) ads. I do not want the kind of people who respond to the later responding to the former.

A very serious problem is novice pilots. Novice pilots basically shouldn't. This is a bit hypocritical of me, as I ended up piloting a lot in my early days, but that was more a result of lack of other alternatives. The core problem is that while crews always win matches (Kamoba often says 'nothing without my crew' after matches, and any experienced pilot can tell you that applies to all of us), pilots are best placed to lose matches. What I mean by this is a bad pilot makes it impossible for a good crew to compensate because pilots pick bad loadouts and are the determining factor in if suitable guns are pointing at the enemy. Nothing in the game makes this clear though. Something as simple as a message which came up the first time you went to pilot warning you what you are getting yourself in for would help, but no such message exists. This addresses one of your concerns. I was never in a position where I didn't know what I wanted my crew to do. I might have lots of options for them (I'm happy to run triple engi builds, builds with gunners, buff engi builds, really totally insane builds), but if you don't know what to do I have always made sure to explain at least an outline of my plan and what we are doing, especially to new players. Lots of novice pilots don't do this, and it does suck.

I like your positive reinforcement idea Xylo. I'd still give levels for tutorial achievements, I'd just raise the novice cap. I just don't think any of this will be enough. Honestly I don't know what would be. All I can do is continue the way I always have, which is when a decent sounding person posts of the forums remind them that they are welcome on my ship any time. An offer that now includes you Xylo.

[Arturo Sanchez]

I vote for a special hat that is stuck to you and won't come off until you complete the tutorials

I instead propose a cherry icon next to your name/class icon. And your class title will not change from cherry "class" until you have done the tutorials (as in all of them).

but more importantly FIX THIS DAMN LVL INFLATION. Bad enough novices dont go in novice. But they lvl so goddamn fast they literally just play less than double digit matches and they graduate.

especially engie... those noob matches last FOREVER. You can grind achieves on those things for the full 40 mins-1 and half hour death match.