Guns Of Icarus Online
Main => Gameplay => Topic started by: Dilwo on August 18, 2013, 01:08:15 am
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God Tier : Pyramidion
Tier 1 : Junker, Galleon
Tier 1 and a half : Goldfish
Tier 2 : Mobula
Tier useless : Squid, Spire
Discuss.
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I've played on kickass spires and squids can be a pain. It really depends on how you use the vessel that determines its effectiveness, for instance I can roundabout a pyramidion in a Junker all day. A mobula can put a lot of fire down range and is more of a support vessel in my opinion, a spire is a long range sniper platform and with the right weapons and a proper crew it can deal a lot of damage. A squid is more of a harassing vessel, lighting a vessel on fire and then running away, allowing a friendly vessel to disengage or finish the job. A galleon is your typical tank and I really don't know how to describe it really.
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This is true, however this game might as well be called Guns of Pyramidions right now. In any given game there will always be at least 2 pyramidions. Everything else is either galleon/goldfish if we're talking competitive.
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What I've yet to understand is how you grouped these together.
Everything else is either galleon/goldfish if we're talking competitive.
I actually don't see Galleons that often, they are more of a rare occurrence in my time playing.
In any given game there will always be at least 2 pyramidions
That's true on average, however I don't see what that has to do with anything.
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It has to do with the fact that if the ship is on average being played twice as much as any other ship in the game, there might be some problems, as it is much too strong.
Also I do agree on the galleon, however I feel it is still really strong. Most people just play junker or golfish if it's not a pyramidion.
Edit : Sorry, super tired ;P Spelled ship as game.
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We've had conversations about the pyra https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,2028.0.html I recommend reading this if you haven't already.
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I actually haven't. Thanks for the link.
My main problem after reading the entire thread.
All any lower level player will see is pyramidions, no matter their skill level. It's just annoying seeing nothing but pyramidions EVERY game. I haven't seen a spire in at least 30 games.
This needs to be changed for the general enjoyment of ALL players. Nothing is good in too large of amounts. Sort of like getting a pyramidion cavity, I'm starting to get bored of the game simply because I see nothing but pyramidions, and occasionally a goldfish and junker here and there.
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We can't balance the game around the newest/lowest levels players' experiences though.
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The thing about it is that you can't force someone to use a different ship if they don't want to, the only real suggestion I would have would be to join higher level lobbies and see how that goes for you, mind you even there people fly pyra's but yeah. The thing about the pyra, and you've probably noticed this, is that it is easy to engineer on, therefore making it slightly more durable, and yes while it turns like a barge, it is still a fairly effective vessel, mainly because it is a vessel that focuses on it's frontal armaments, effectivly making it a "Point in general direction shoot." Fact of the matter is if someone wants to use x vessel then by all means they can use x vessel, doesn't mean it'll work for them.
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The thing about it is that you can't force someone to use a different ship if they don't want to, the only real suggestion I would have would be to join higher level lobbies and see how that goes for you, mind you even there people fly pyra's but yeah. The thing about the pyra, and you've probably noticed this, is that it is easy to engineer on, therefore making it slightly more durable, and yes while it turns like a barge, it is still a fairly effective vessel, mainly because it is a vessel that focuses on it's frontal armaments, effectivly making it a "Point in general direction shoot." Fact of the matter is if someone wants to use x vessel then by all means they can use x vessel, doesn't mean it'll work for them.
You also forgot that when something terrible happens...like...say a carronade flamer squid staying in that Pyramidion's blind spot and effectively taking out their balloon and hull...and setting everything else on fire...I'll just stop there.
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You also forgot that when something terrible happens...like...say a carronade flamer squid staying in that Pyramidion's blind spot and effectively taking out their balloon and hull...and setting everything else on fire...I'll just stop there.
Yeah that is painful, more so on a galleon.
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You also forgot that when something terrible happens...like...say a carronade flamer squid staying in that Pyramidion's blind spot and effectively taking out their balloon and hull...and setting everything else on fire...I'll just stop there.
Yeah that is painful, more so on a galleon.
Basically, there is no useless ship...
just people who aren't doing something right....once someone learns how to fly all ships, they tend to learn offhand how they work...and since most newbies seem to put all their time into a Pyramidion, they're going to fly their Squid or Spire like one...
I wouldn't have known how to fly any of my ships without hours of being on other people's....
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Which is why most of us recommend doing the other two roles before switching to being captain.
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Mobula is too soon to call as this ship is still finding its niche in the game
Granted it's early, but I'd say it's more of a support. It can be a rather effective disabling ship, with enough to defend itself, but it's high fragility means that it will be nothing without teamwork, much like with a Squid, or Flak, or even Spire. With the fact that all the guns practically point forward, it's basically a sitting duck as, just like a Spire, its insane firepower means it cannot fly circles around you, but rather point and turn.
(I forgot whose Mobula I was on, but we did get 12 kills in Desert Scrap, post 1.3.1 Merc Fix...and we only died twice...)
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If you're bored of the Pyramidion, leave the beginner's matches and start playing in some higher-level ones. You'll find that the Pyra doesn't dominate quite so much.
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If you're bored of the Pyramidion, leave the beginner's matches and start playing in some higher-level ones. You'll find that the Pyra doesn't dominate quite so much.
Yeah, this is all I can really say about this without going into all the discussion that went into that "pyramidion OP" thread. You see lots of pyramidions because they're easy for beginners. That does not mean they're too powerful, because once you try other builds you realize they're not all that good. They're certainly not bad, but you'll see much more variety in higher leveled matches. Hop into one sometime.
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The thing is the pyra is a good ship for learning the basics of crewing a ship, it's fairly linear - engines in back guns up front. As is the goldfish.
Everything you learn flying these ships can be applied to the other ships, but there's always a twist.
The galleon for example requires you to learn where the guns are without actually being able to see them, while giving you a really slow turn rate. If you haven't learned healthy comm skills you'll find it hard just to keep guns on targets.
Then you have to learn how to deal with each of the other ship types, from the perspective of that ship - how to defend from attacks and how to attack.
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These have mostly all been great replies, I usually run with between 3 and 7 of my group, and we seem to have fantastic communication. The only problem is, we all don't have time to wait around for these "high level" matches you speak of. I can't even hardly find one 50% of the time. So we generally just queue up or create a match and whoever joins we play. I usually run squid when I have all 8 but recently I've changed over towards the junker since most of my group is getting bored of the game for mostly the same reasons I am.
I know it's not possible the change the game ONLY for the low leveled players, but if you think about it, when the low leveled players are 80-90% of the players, and when 80-90% of THOSE players are running nothing but a single ship, it stands to reason that something needs to be changed about THAT ship, to make the lower level play more varied and interesting, so people don't just quit outright thinking there's only one ship in the game that's good.
I know for a fact that other ships are good and can be used as such, but not EVERYONE plays with a full group like myself with good communication and teamwork.
The point is, the pyramidion needs something done to it to maintain it's current state in high level play, where it's just a slightly above average ship, yet make it not see as much play in the lower level brackets simply due to it being so easy to use and the flaws so easy to cover up.
Either that, or other ships need help to look more appealing in the eyes of the newer player.
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What timeslot do you play btw?
Speaking personally I like to fly squid and mobula and I have friends who like spires, however all three of these ships are easy to die in if you don't use them well or have competent gunners and engineers. I play a lot of games with players I've never played with prior to the match so often start out with a pyra moving onto to a different ship type, or not, depending on how the crew works together or how much they know about their roles.
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I feel odd man out because I can't stand piloting the pyramid or goldfish. I think I just got spoiled on the squids maneuverability. Its by no means the best ship, but even with just AIs, I'm learning when and where to be effective with it.
My biggest beef with Pyras is not the ship but the captains. Almost always I will join a map that has two full crews and as soon as my team has two captains, everyone readies up. If my teammate is patient and we wait to fill up, we can usually sweep Pyras. I just hate going against stacked teams and then not being able to build my team as well.
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I feel odd man out because I can't stand piloting the pyramid or goldfish.
I haven't been able to fly a prya effectively in so long, as for the goldfish I've only flown it like once or twice so I don't have an opinion on it.
I think I just got spoiled on the squids maneuverability.
I'm spoiled on the junkers versatility, it's a joy to fly about in it.
I just hate going against stacked teams and then not being able to build my team as well.
Pretty much most players in this game, being on the losing side with no one enjoyable is not fun.
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The Squid is actually a shockingly good Pyra counter, yeah. I especially love the Carro-Artemis build. It just leaves them dead in the water.
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The Squid is actually a shockingly good Pyra counter, yeah. I especially love the Carro-Artemis build. It just leaves them dead in the water.
I kind of like Morbie's Mine-Mortar Squid...
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If you're bored of the Pyramidion, leave the beginner's matches and start playing in some higher-level ones. You'll find that the Pyra doesn't dominate quite so much.
When you have a good crew and a great ally, all ships are viable and work well with their intended roles. However, with a ragtag assembly of random players, the usual safest choice is Pyramidion because its easy to repair, shoot, and pilot.
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When you have a good crew and a great ally, all ships are viable and work well with their intended roles.
When did we stop calling the Spire a ship?
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Basically, there is no useless ship... (letus)
Yeah you just have to remember that the squid is for capping not for fighting :P
@ Sammy BT, prolly when we started spelling it with a T, just a guess tho.
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Yeah you just have to remember that the squid is for capping not for fighting :P
What??? I've been playing this game all wrong. Suppose I'll have to stop fighting and killing ships with a squid now.
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Yeah you just have to remember that the squid is for capping not for fighting :P
What??? I've been playing this game all wrong. Suppose I'll have to stop fighting and killing ships with a squid now.
Agreed, my Mantis Shrimp must be glitched because I keep getting these kills all the time.
But seriously, even the Spire can be a beast
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Yeah you just have to remember that the squid is for capping not for fighting :P
What??? I've been playing this game all wrong. Suppose I'll have to stop fighting and killing ships with a squid now.
Agreed, my Mantis Shrimp must be glitched because I keep getting these kills all the time.
But seriously, even the Spire can be a beast
Note Red Velvet and Wedding Cake
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It's 1:30 AM and I'm bored, so here's my opinion on how the ships are actually ordered (too lazy to use tiers though, and once again, 1:30 AM).
Junker > Pyra > Galleon > Mobula > Goldfish > Squid > Spire
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Basically, there is no useless ship... (letus)
Yeah you just have to remember that the squid is for capping not for fighting :P
...guess I'm gonna have to do a shameful plug to the first 11 minutes of this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l70dckJlBBU&feature=player_detailpage&t=0) now....
ignore the giggling
that wasn't me.
It was Morbie...abusing his Dev powers to make it look like me.
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Junker > Pyra > Galleon > Mobula > Goldfish > Squid > Spire
Agreed there, as a rough list, that's mostly how it is. The Junker's tankyness along with its great versatility and agility. Not the speediest vessel, but it can compesate.
Also, again, poor, poor Spire.. :'(
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All any lower level player will see is pyramidions, no matter their skill level. It's just annoying seeing nothing but pyramidions EVERY game. I haven't seen a spire in at least 30 games.
Beginner matches - inspiring false confidence since 2013.
It's going to come as a shock when large cohorts of beginners who've never ventured outside the little league games suddenly find they've levelled up and can no longer qualify for entry to them. "Shit, there's more than just Pyras to this game? - I just got my ass kicked by a ****ing Squid!"
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Yeah you just have to remember that the squid is for capping not for fighting :P
I very much disagree.
It's 1:30 AM and I'm bored, so here's my opinion on how the ships are actually ordered (too lazy to use tiers though, and once again, 1:30 AM).
Junker > Pyra > Galleon > Mobula > Goldfish > Squid > Spire
Are we talking ease of use? If so,
Pyra > Goldfish > Junker > Mobula > Galleon > Squid > Spire
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Judged on a combination of survivability and killing power.
Junker > Pyramidion > Squid > Goldfish > Mobula > Galleon > Spire
That said, I've seen Spire builds that can absolutely wreck every other ship. I also think people severely underestimate the power of a Squid. Yall will think me nuts, but I think the Squid, in the right hands, can be a bitch to kill, even harder than a Junker.
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It's 1:30 AM and I'm bored, so here's my opinion on how the ships are actually ordered (too lazy to use tiers though, and once again, 1:30 AM).
Junker > Pyra > Galleon > Mobula > Goldfish > Squid > Spire
Are we talking ease of use? If so,
Pyra > Goldfish > Junker > Mobula > Galleon > Squid > Spire
No, I was referring more about how good each ship actually is when used to its maximum potential.
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No, I was referring more about how good each ship actually is when used to its maximum potential.
Ah, okay. In that case I don't think I can create a ranking because it depends on way too many variables.
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Yeah you just have to remember that the squid is for capping not for fighting :P
I very much disagree.
Now I'll preface that i rarely play on a random ships, and the ship i crew on is arguably competent.
Squids are just flat out non-threatening, you see one and you give your commiserations to its teammate who now has to do the work of one and a half ships.
I say this because it's always a challenge to justify the squid - I mean what are you trying to accomplish?
Tactical positioning effected by the ships movement? - Even with the best of pilots if your up against a competent opposition the squid almost always ends up dead or running away so much as to be ineffective - which is why they're so rare in competitive play.
Now i don't want to make this about competitive play but we should compare apples and apples - if your posting on the forum your not a regular pub - if your posing you crushed pubs with a squid you have skills but that hardly means the ships good.
With all things being equal, other ships will end you - or worse ignore you and focus fire your teammate while you prance around 'Squiding'.
Edit: My list goes Pyra > Galleon > Junker > Goldfish & Mobula > Squid > Spire
(squid above spire for the cap not the combat)
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@Moriarty
Noooooo.
The Squid has the following advantages:
1. It's way more durable than people make it out to be (four hits to rebuild the armour and more perma than the Pyra).
2. Most of the important components are bunched together and can quickly be accessed by engineers.
3. It can stay in blind spots very effectively, and can escape battle without too much difficulty.
4. It's one of the only two ships with a rear gun, allowing it to deter pursuit or just simply giving it more options.
5. It's really, really hard to hit it with slow-moving projectiles.
The Squid's a really good ship. I've actually been thinking a lot lately about how it would fare in competitive play (cue Gilder reminding us that it needs its manoeuvrability fixed), and I'm sure that it could go somewhere with the right strategy.
No, I was referring more about how good each ship actually is when used to its maximum potential.
Ah, okay. In that case I don't think I can create a ranking because it depends on way too many variables.
Yeah, there really is too much to take into account to make a fully accurate one. The Goldfish, for example, overtakes the Mobula if the enemy team doesn't bring mercs. There are loads of things like that that change the rankings based on the situation...
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Junker > Galleon > Pyra > Goldfish & Mobula & Spire > Squid
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Its just doesn't pack enough of a punch to justify - maybe if cannonades or flamers worked differently.
annny way i got bigger fish to fry
*Gets pokeball and waits for a wild Gilder to appear*
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A Squid on your aft washing flames and mortars over your engines, balloon and hull while it's ally pummels you with gat/mortar is a quick death. In a 1v1, a Squid would lose, but if you're fighting 1v1 you're doing something wrong.
Having a Squid on your team is like attaching a grenade launcher, holographic sight, and suppressor to an AR-15. The Squid is a support ship that compliments the ally ship.
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Meh, sound like I haven't been playing my squid enough in GOI.
I'm totally taking my Squid against the Lucky Duck in your next Practice Moriarty (just need to figure out how to stay awake til 5am).
My Squid vs ANYONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Ok so the squid isn't the best ship but you all are underating it just a bit I think. The Galleon may be the sword of GOI but the Squid is the scalpel. It can be almost anywhere on the map at anytime sitting in peoples blindspots and dissecting them. It either forces an enemy team to try and kill the squid desperately while its ally beats them up or to shoot at their ally while the squid disables one enemy forcing a 1v1 between the remaining enemy and their ally. If the ally dies, the squid is one of the few ships that can consistently escape an engagement and regroup with the respawn.
The squid does require Sunderland levels of engineering to efficiently keep its engines up while the pilot keeps on abusing engines, but in the right hands, squids are extremely effective.
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Galleon - The Sword
Prya - The Spear
Junker - The Shield
Squid - The Scalpel
Spire - The Bow
Mobula - The Hammer
Goldfish - The Dagger
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Frankly I find it silly to try to put tiers on ships.
You got ships you're good at piloting/crewing, some more than others.
Good example for me is that I'm pretty good at a Squid...have had my Squid annoy ships and not die...mostly against Pyramidions...but I know how to get that thing into every blindspot...unless I forgot to change to my Squid Loadout.
I'm a pretty crappy pilot at the Pyramidion....probably because that's my least favourite ship now because I CAN'T HAVE UMLAUTS IN MY NAME! I'd be flying it more if I had the name Pÿrmähürmäfërgër back! D:<
So basically, Tiering comes down to personal experience, and as a result, is opinionated. The "strongest" ship is as strong as it's weakest teammate....
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i think people misunderstand the squid
its obviously an ambush ship, and saying they are barely a threat seems a bit silly to me since a gat / mortar squid has about the same killing power as a pyra
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I agree with you Ccrack - infact people will write them off when they see them in a lobby which gives them an added layer of psychological armour known to the layperson as "shame".
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The squid isn't useless, but it requires specific strategies to be effective. It's a hit and run, close range ship that can harass the enemy pretty effectively. You just have to have a teammate to tank with while you dance around, spreading fire to every ship.
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The pyra is good, it's easy for each crew member to perform well. But put me and my guys in a squid versus your pyra or galleon, you'll lose everytime.
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Anyone else noticed how the arguments about the Pyra and Squid are basically mirrors of each other?
Pyra: Someone says the Pyra is too powerful, many jump in to explain how weak it really is while thinly insinuating the original poster doesn't know how to play the game.
Squid: Someone says the Squid is too weak, many jump in to explain how good it really is while thinly insinuating the original poster doesn't know how to play the game.
Can we maybe reach the point where we admit how good/bad a ship is really comes down to how good/bad the crew it carries is? I mean, I understand that there are real differences between the ships and that those differences can affect matches. But that really mostly applies at the very bottom level of play (when nobody knows what they're doing, so the hard differences between ships matter) and at the very top level of play (where everyone's really good, and the mechanical differences between ships come back into play).
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Anyone else noticed how the arguments about the Pyra and Squid are basically mirrors of each other?
Pyra: Someone says the Pyra is too powerful, many jump in to explain how weak it really is while thinly insinuating the original poster doesn't know how to play the game.
Squid: Someone says the Squid is too weak, many jump in to explain how good it really is while thinly insinuating the original poster doesn't know how to play the game.
Can we maybe reach the point where we admit how good/bad a ship is really comes down to how good/bad the crew it carries is? I mean, I understand that there are real differences between the ships and that those differences can affect matches. But that really mostly applies at the very bottom level of play (when nobody knows what they're doing, so the hard differences between ships matter) and at the very top level of play (where everyone's really good, and the mechanical differences between ships come back into play).
You get a salute for this!
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http://www.twitch.tv/innuendosquad/b/450872678
Skip to about 38:30 in and you'll see the squid used in a pretty good way.
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Spire useless?
So many players just dont know how to use the god damn ship. Its my favourite and i wreck other people with it, even if it is pyramidions.
But with a crew that does not know what they are doing. Its just a huge handicap.
I cannot play a proper spire without my crew from my clan. Public play with the spire just does not let itself be easy because of how trigger happy and non roleplaying the players usually are.
Like a gunner gunning the mine launcher and not the hwacha.
Or seeing him take the mercury and not the heavy flak.
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How does the Heavy Flak do on the Goldfish? I mean, I know everyone's all "The Lesmok changes made Heavy Flak useless," but if I'm just PuGing it will it be that terrible? I want something a little more flexible than the Lumberjack.
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How does the Heavy Flak do on the Goldfish? I mean, I know everyone's all "The Lesmok changes made Heavy Flak useless," but if I'm just PuGing it will it be that terrible? I want something a little more flexible than the Lumberjack.
'Bad' describes it pretty well.
Don't even try it, it's horrible, you are basically completely dependant on your ally to take down the enemy's armor. Your main gun will lack any sort of utility other than an occassional stack of fire.
Anyway.. I can't be arsed to explain all the reasons that make the HF horrible on a Goldfish, let's just stay at 'You can't pair it with piercing' argument.
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I have to say, I'm a little disappointed at just how many guns are currently considered "bad." I mean, there's...what, a handful of guns people actually use? Mercury, mortar, gatling, hwacha, light carronade...flamer is annoying, but ultimately kinda useless. The heavy carronade only even goes on three ships. I wish there was a little more variety beyond "this is the build you use at range, this is the build you use up close. Anything else is worthless." Sure, you can have some fun with crazy mine-laying builds or whatever, but that's pretty much it.
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Crazy flamer builds.
Don't forget the crazy flamer builds.
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You're better off using the heavy flak on a spire and alpha striking than putting it on a goldfish. Try it if you're running with an organized team though as having your ally strip armor and your flakfish making that one shot kill will be very enjoyable.
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Flak on the fish can still be good, but only with an ally dedicated to anti armor.
I had great success playing a flak fish (carronades on sides) when my ally took a double gatling pyramidion. We had a very mobile killing team going for a while, though it was a bit tough for me if my ally bit it.
Its not exactly optimal, but can be fun.
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Thaago, that sounds about right.
My vision was a Goldfish with Heavy Flak on front and a Gatling on each side. The Gatling has a pretty good arc, so you'd only really need to turn slightly after taking down their armor. (even easier with a Phoenix Claw) With Heavy Clip, the gungineer can hit from pretty far away on the side guns and the gunner can switch between Heavy Clip/Burst/whatever as needed on the front. It's not as intuitive as a Gatling/Mortar Pyramidion or as versatile as a Junker, but (on paper, at least) seems like it could get the job done.
Actually...three Flak Goldfish plus five Gatling Junker sounds like something I'd love to see at least once!
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I always wanted to try the flakfish+double gat Pyra combo ever since the loch change. It'll get you insanely quick kills, but if either ship goes down then you're in a bad situation.
Maybe a double gat+mortar trifecta Junker would be better so that at least one of the ships can function on its own.
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Carronade and Heavy Flak Goldfishes?
So they could keep up with each other?
Give the Blenderfish Light Flaks and the Flakfish Gats so they can (kinda) take care of themselves?
Seems like it's at least worth a shot.
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All this makes me think we should do a guide/thread somewhere that's all about suggesting ship combinations. Like, what to use when your teammate is a Lumberjack Galleon, or what complements a sniper-built Mobula.
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Tier useless : Squid
Discuss.
HOW. DARE. YOU
The squid is amazing and a truly wonderful ship!
TAKE IT BACK DAMNIT!
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Calm down Gambrill. A squid in the hands of a useless pilot is useless, as pilot skill goes up so does the usefulness of the squid. I know the same can be said of any ship, but the rate at which the squid's usefulness increases in proportion to pilot skill is almost a quadratic curve. Ohh I really want to graph this now. Every thing is better with math.
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In terms of general usefulness when creating a 2v2 team, since that's the game mode most people play on this game:
1. Pyramidion
2. Junker
3. Galleon
4. Mobula - Goldfish
5. Squid
6. Spire
The Pyramidion is first solely because it's paired with everything very easily. It's a solid ship with it's ups and downs, but generaly very useful since it can give chace. It can easily pair Piercing + Explosive.
The Junker is the best overall ship in the game currently so it is imperative that it comes second. It requires a bit more game knowledge to run it properly. It can easily pair Piercing + Explosive, while also bringing supporting disablers as an added benefit if the pilot desires so.
The Galleon is a formidable ship when ran by an experienced team, but doesn't stick with everything and requires careful planning, also requires a good tackler ally and is generaly very hard to run.
The Mobula and the Goldfish are probably equally powerful at the moment, while I personaly believe that the Mobula's horrible handling and horrible deck layout makes it less desirable, the Goldfish still has the glaringly obvious weakness of its exposed front gun being easily disabled, other than that, both ships are pretty equally useful but require to be paired with an appropriate tackler ally. Also Mobula might be getting a bit of an edge because of the ability to use Piercing + Explosive as well, but it's pretty offset by very weak stats and carronade bait balloon.
The Squid is a ship that lacks a lot of firepower to be considered a battleship, it only fills the niche role of disabling slower ships and taking advantage of their blindspots, but any Junker will completely trash it since it practicaly has no blind spot except above its balloon, where the Squid can't return fire anyway. A Pyramidion can also take care of it pretty quickly as well and Goldfish can utterly disable it by either equiping a carronade or a Hwacha, turning it into a sitting duck (no pun intended about the actual clan). Since it doesn't pose nearly as much threat as its ally, it will probably be ignored and its ally will be focused down pretty fast, leaving it alone and unable to do anything.
The Spire is a slow Goldfish, with an even more easily disabled front gun and very weak stats. It never actually manages to work with a trifecta since even if you take the slightest bit of return fire your engineers will be scrambling to keep this piece of metal alive, hence the firepower of the Spire can't be used all that well, it is also very easily focused and brought down, faster than most ships, hence it wins the 'trash tier' award.
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Alright everyone for the 1 millionth time. The Spires top deck right gun is 7 out of 10 times the captains gun.
The captain steers the ship slightly left of target than hops on to take the necessary shots (usually explosive damage finishing shots).
I do hope Muse turns that gun slightly farther forward to increase the variety of guns able to make trifecta and ease of use for the pilot, but for anyone who seriously wants to fly the Spire, it is a skill that must be learnt.
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Alright everyone for the 1 millionth time. The Spires top deck right gun is 7 out of 10 times the captains gun.
The captain steers the ship slightly left of target than hops on to take the necessary shots (usually explosive damage finishing shots).
The most successful Spire I ever flew on followed that- it had a Heavy Flak main gun, forward-facing Gatling and starboard-facing Banshee on the top deck, and a flare on the port-facing mount for utility. We would approach, use a Heavy Clip-enhanced Gatling to strip armor and then finish with the Heavy Flak (plus the Banshee, if we weren't in dire straights). Occasionally I (the top-deck engineer and primary Gatling gunner) would switch to the Banshee if I thought I could get there before the armor went back up. It worked very well, though we pretty much had to get the first shot in.
Most of the Spires I've come across tend to run the Manticore, something I've never understood. Yeah, it's great at disabling, but unless you're in spitting distance (in which case, you're probably about to die) it's hard to totally shut down their ability to hurt you...and in the Spire, even one gun firing at you is often too much. I don't recall off-hand ever really noticing any Heavy Carronade or Lumberjack Spires...or any other with Heavy Flak for that matter.
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I am surprised EchoEZ doesn't know that since the only time I have flown with him he insisted on flying spires for 3 matches in a row.
My Spire rolls 2xGats on the upper deck and a flare manticore on the bottom. If left unmolested long enough it can break a target's armor with the Gats and make a solo kill with the Manticore faster than any ship but a galleon. As Smollett said the top right Gat is the pilot's gun while the bottom left gun is the hull engie's gun. Sadly the hull engie doesn't get to shoot it much since the ship can't afford to have him off the hull for longer than 3 seconds in combat.
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I was flying the Spire when I started playing this game, I still do and I know perfectly well the captain can shoot a gun, but it doesn't help when you have nobody to steer you know, when the enemy is moving horizontaly, you need to be on the helm, else all your guns will lose arcs, it's simply not possible to do in the heat of the battle, you need to stay mobile.
Unless the enemy isn't focused at you, at long range they will be packing something to keep your main gun down, or they should be if they are clever, so not being on the help won't actually help, you need to steer that ship, you can't just be stading in the middle of nowhere waiting to be disabler and not keeping under cover.
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Clever piloting can make a maneuver 3 seconds ahead of where the enemy is headed.
If you do it just right you can spin your pilots wheel a little farther ahead of the target so that all three guns are in arc by the time you make it to your gun to finish the kill.
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Clever piloting can make a maneuver 3 seconds ahead of where the enemy is headed.
If you do it just right you can spin your pilots wheel a little farther ahead of the target so that all three guns are in arc by the time you make it to your gun to finish the kill.
Depending on your guns this might make aimming a bit hard for your gunners or throw off their shots, since I mostly fly Hwacha or LJ Spire, this is a crusial detail which you can't ignore, especialy for the LJ, the limited horizontal arc means it will be our of arc very soon if the enemy is making a horizontal pass, you need to guide your guns, there is simply not enough time to spend away from the helm unless the enemy is charging straight at you or you need to repair the balloon. That's my experience with the Spire when I used it against remotely experienced players.
Other than that, the Spire has so many things to worry about, it's simply not viable to a reasonable level, trifectas are rare and don't happen all that often due to the constant need to steer to avoid enemy fire and disables from hitting your guns.
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Clever piloting can make a maneuver 3 seconds ahead of where the enemy is headed.
If you do it just right you can spin your pilots wheel a little farther ahead of the target so that all three guns are in arc by the time you make it to your gun to finish the kill.
with my spire i notice it still turns slightly after i lket go allowing the guns to stay in arc throughout the turn and when i get to my side gun its a pretty sure thing that damage will have been caused to the perma hull :P
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I'd like to join into the Spire conversation since I've been brawling in a Spire since the patch. I run a Manticore with a mortar and banshee up top and go for total burst damage, first you unload with the manticore (loaded with burst or heavy clip) and the banshee (burst) then mop up with the mortar. I've even gotten a few ram kills flanking pyra's since when ramming a pyra you can easily knock it off gun arch so it can't hit you at all, where as a spire doesn't really turn when you hit something. Sure getting through a whole match without getting downed is easier said than done, but you'll get some interesting kills and if you fly well enough, and pick and choose your fights, you'll come out on top. Also you can throw 2 mine launchers on this build in CP games and really make more than a few people angry when you're smashing them with a Manticore/mortar after they just hit 3-5 mines.
Now lets switch channels to the Mobula, as I have yet to find a viable build with it, other than maybe a Minebula (4 minelaunchers and a 5th gun of choice to mop up)
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Clever piloting can make a maneuver 3 seconds ahead of where the enemy is headed.
If you do it just right you can spin your pilots wheel a little farther ahead of the target so that all three guns are in arc by the time you make it to your gun to finish the kill.
with my spire i notice it still turns slightly after i lket go allowing the guns to stay in arc throughout the turn and when i get to my side gun its a pretty sure thing that damage will have been caused to the perma hull :P
There should be a tool that locks the helm in a turn, so you can hop off, and get on a gun and the ship continues to turn.
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here´s my tier
competitive play:
tier 1:
pyramidion - the pyramidion have a strong ram, also very versatile for the charging tactic with the 2 front guns. - ram on the balloon very good way of splitting people up.
junker - the junkers durability at long + medium range makes it an amazing defensive ship that can soak a lot of damage and protect your ally. - great mobility.
tier 2:
galleon - not as mobile as the junker, however the perfect stationary ship, with capability at all ranges. - use this ship if you have amazing heavy gunners.
spire - spire in my opinion have the possiblity to become a wrecking ball. really good at long range, but have also been proven to work in short range. - the perfect ship for bursting damage.
tier 3:
goldfish - the goldfish have amazing mobility, however the sole front gun makes it an easy ship to lock down. only works if your ally can tank both enemies.
mobula - the idea of the mobula is to have 3 gunners, however this proves hard when you are under fire especially with flame weapons. Dies incredibly fast.
squid - the squid is an amazing ship that I would love to put in tier 2, however the occasional lag problems puts it in this tier, any lag that occurs is fatal, often making your pilot unable to dodge, or your hull engineer to repair/rebuild.
random match tier (fun tier)
tier 1
Squid - the squid is fun to pilot, fun to engineer and fun to win with.
Junker - the junker makes the perfect crew management ship, there are so many possibilities to do, captaining requires that you communicate with your crew.
tier 2
pyramidion - the classic meta ship, though being nerfed oer and over again, still a solid way to play the game and also a good starter ship for all roles.
mobula - the mobula have a ton of possibilities and a meta code that still needs to be broken. Its fun to try out in all ranges. requires however competent crew in all roles
spire - would be in tier 1 if hull engineering wasnt the most boring thing on this ship. however have a ton of posibilites for diffrent playstyles. I reccomend this ship for pilots who wants to learn how to dodge and manage crew under pressure.
tier 3
galleon - the less piloting you do on a galleon, the better. it is a gunners ship, so your captain better listen to the gunners. not so fun for pilots or people who wants to repair.
goldfish - possibly the best starter ship, however it´s variations are limited often the blenderfish is the best way to go. Often boring being engineer on, and flying it quickly becomes monotone.
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At this point and time I'd say the Squid is very competitive, judging by the weapons that got recently buffed (Light Carronade, Flamer, Banshee), it's quite a tanky ship, extremely manuverable and flexible and shares similarities with a Goldfish with lesser health stats, but more manuverable and better Front-Side gun arcs, also rear gun bonus. All in all right now this ships should be a beast with a capable pilot.
Actually both the Squid and the Goldfish got indirectly buffed since pure kill builds got nerfed, hence you will see less Mortars and more of a need to disable, they also are very resistant to the Banshee on their hull due to ridiculously fast armor rebuilds.
Junker's lack of speed in this patch realy shows its age and is finally taking a toll on the ship, the slower armor repair as well.
Pyramidion is still fairly standard since the main things that make it popular haven't been changed much if at all, very versatile ship.
Mobula/Spire are still in that uncanny valley where you either do amazing or horrible with them, I still think these two ships aren't that good, but fun to play for some ( I know I realy like the Spire :P )
Galleon's performance is still outstanding.
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At this point and time I'd say the Squid is very competitive, judging by the weapons that got recently buffed (Light Carronade, Flamer, Banshee), it's quite a tanky ship, extremely manuverable and flexible and shares similarities with a Goldfish with lesser health stats, but more manuverable and better Front-Side gun arcs, also rear gun bonus. All in all right now this ships should be a beast with a capable pilot.
Actually both the Squid and the Goldfish got indirectly buffed since pure kill builds got nerfed, hence you will see less Mortars and more of a need to disable, they also are very resistant to the Banshee on their hull due to ridiculously fast armor rebuilds.
Junker's lack of speed in this patch realy shows its age and is finally taking a toll on the ship, the slower armor repair as well.
Pyramidion is still fairly standard since the main things that make it popular haven't been changed much if at all, very versatile ship.
Mobula/Spire are still in that uncanny valley where you either do amazing or horrible with them, I still think these two ships aren't that good, but fun to play for some ( I know I realy like the Spire :P )
Galleon's performance is still outstanding.
we need a thread that updates every other week with community member/clan picks :)
so if you like the playstyle from example the ducks, you can look at what their picks are and fly after that.
and If you like how calico jack is doing things you can look at his :p
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All ships can be used in competitive play. Some are harder then others but when it comes down to it all ships are powerful in their own way. It just depends if people want to take the time needed to learn a ship.
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Not that there is ever a sure thing in this game but I look at the ship match ups as such
Junker beats Squid due to smallest blind and enough maneuverability to track the squid
Squid beats Galleon due to size of Galleon's blind spot and the galleon's poor maneuverability.
Galleon beats Junker due to fire power and and armor advantage.
The Pyra is like a Junker with a bigger blind side and better charging abilities so it is better against Galleons but worse against squids. It does not hold a definite advantage in any area.
The Spire is like a Galleon only it can turn fast enough to engage a squid but lacks the overwhelming fire power and armor to overpower a junker.
The Gold Fish is like a squid only slower and with a better gun. It is stronger against Junkers but weaker against Galleons.
I haven't gotten a good handle on the Mobula yet. I am tempted to say it is in the Pyra Junker category, but there are defiantly Spire/Galleon aspects to it.
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phoenix claw on a pyra is actually capable of following a squid around, just keep your engineer on engine run.
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Not that there is ever a sure thing in this game but I look at the ship match ups as such
Junker beats Squid due to smallest blind and enough maneuverability to track the squid
Squid beats Galleon due to size of Galleon's blind spot and the galleon's poor maneuverability.
Galleon beats Junker due to fire power and and armor advantage.
The Pyra is like a Junker with a bigger blind side and better charging abilities so it is better against Galleons but worse against squids. It does not hold a definite advantage in any area.
The Spire is like a Galleon only it can turn fast enough to engage a squid but lacks the overwhelming fire power and armor to overpower a junker.
The Gold Fish is like a squid only slower and with a better gun. It is stronger against Junkers but weaker against Galleons.
I haven't gotten a good handle on the Mobula yet. I am tempted to say it is in the Pyra Junker category, but there are defiantly Spire/Galleon aspects to it.
While this is all accurate to a degree I find this to be all terribly oversimplified, because even with pilot skill aside, weapon selection (especially since the latest patch) is as much or more of an indicator of the superior ship within an engagement than an outright ship selection.
I think the best example of this is "Junker beats squid". A Junker will always beat a kill squid but will almost never beat a balloon pop weapons/engine disable squid 1v1. Then again this isn't a 1v1 game. Pyra beats Galleon easily in a 1v1 but is at an absolute disadvantage against a galleon in a 2v2.
Though helpful to a degree, ship tier lists don't make a terrible lot of sense right now since it's not just ships but ship loadouts, how they contrast to enemy ship loadouts and how they compliment your teammate's loadouts. The only way to convey this accurately would be to put ship composition tier lists with loadouts included though I doubt anyone has the patience to list the millions of possible combinations.
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Yeah it is an over simplification, but it was the best I could add to the conversation. The Squid and the Galleon represent the extremes of ship design where as the Junker is the closest to average. I have to hand it to Muse in how they made each ship have its own niche. I would prefer this conversation head toward a "rock/paper/scisors" analogy than a "this ship is obviously superior."
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phoenix claw on a pyra is actually capable of following a squid around, just keep your engineer on engine run.
to counter this have kerosene as squid pilot ;)
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phoenix claw on a pyra is actually capable of following a squid around, just keep your engineer on engine run.
to counter this have kerosene as squid pilot ;)
yea tried that with randoms, ended up with 3 dead engines lol
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phoenix claw on a pyra is actually capable of following a squid around, just keep your engineer on engine run.
to counter this have kerosene as squid pilot ;)
yea tried that with randoms, ended up with 3 dead engines lol
AAHHH skrimshaw :) forgot to mention asking the crew to focus whatever repairs on the engines xD hehe
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Squid engineers should always be fixing things, you have to yell at them when they're sidetracked.
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I have to say. I don't believe on can just simply classify any ship in order of tiers. That completely contradicts what each ship is capable of, or how it is going to be equipped in combat. If anything we should come up with a list that supports which ship is more (potentially) lethal to another ship, like a giant rock, paper, scissors analogy, because that is the actuality of the whole thing. I know if I'm flying a Squid, or Goldfish, then I'mgoing to have a major advantage over someone flying a Spire, or Mobula. On the otherhand if I'm flying a Junker, I might have an advantage over the Pyramidion if I get them at close range and can out maneuver them.
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I know if I'm flying a Squid, or Goldfish, then I'mgoing to have a major advantage over someone flying a Spire, or Mobula.
Assuming equal skill, you would have a major advantage against those specific ships with any other ship. Sorry, had to :P
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As a squid pilot by heart, I think it can be very competitive. In fact I had a few scrims against the Ducks, in which they used a squid, and they did well. My biggest worry is a junker, but if they aren't paying attention I can usually even take down a junker quick. Every other ship is easy, except the pyra. With an armored balloon and phoenix claw a capable pilot will be able to keep his arcs on my squid.
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I know if I'm flying a Squid, or Goldfish, then I'mgoing to have a major advantage over someone flying a Spire, or Mobula.
Assuming equal skill, you would have a major advantage against those specific ships with any other ship. Sorry, had to :P
Echoez don't start this again!!! D: haha