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Messages - geggis

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31
Gameplay / Re: 1.3.3 ENGINEER AND REPAIR TOOL BALANCE
« on: October 31, 2013, 08:19:03 am »
The main problem I have with the chem spray is the fact that it gets 0 cooldown if the part is fully repaired and not on fire, but the full cooldown if the part has even slight damage but still isn't on fire yet. Same with the extinguisher, but it's not supposed to be used BEFORE getting set on fire, so it's not a big deal.

You can't be coming close to an enemy ship that has a flamethrower, and suddenly decide you're gonna spray the entire ship real quick. If there's any sort of damage on and being done to the hull, that cooldown can be deadly. Same if the captain is using an engine damaging tool to get close to the flame ship. Spraying the engines means you've got that cooldown before they can get repaired again, and with moonshine on, thats a big deal.

Is it at all possible to make chem spray only initiate a cooldown if it's actively putting out fire? That would simplify the use of the tool down from "Pre-spray a part if you think you're going to be engaging an enemy that has fire weapons within the next 20 seconds and the part in question is  not going to be taking damage over the next 6 seconds or is currently entirely repaired" to "pre-spray a part if you think it's gonna get set on fire soon". I might like it then.

A bit late pulling this up, but I think this is an important point to consider when it comes to the cooling down. No cooldown if there's no fire -- or a short cooldown after EVERY spray regardless of component health or fire status (to keep it consistent and intuitive) -- coupled with increased fire protection duration (perhaps 30 seconds?) could help a lot.

32
Gameplay / Re: 1.3.3 Spire
« on: October 31, 2013, 07:25:20 am »
My current spire build is:
Merc top front, 2x Artemis left and right side. Hell hound for the main gun. I use the hellhound as a backup weapon while mostly relying on the Merc, Artemis, Artemis combo to take out my opponent at long range. The engineers take burst while the gunner takes charged heavy and burst. Most of the game the gunner sits on the merc putting holes in the other ship's armor while the engines shoot the Artemis. If the enemy gets too close, the gunner jumps down to to the hell hound and takes out the balloon, giving the spire some breathing room to run to his ally. When under fire both engineers will be at the hull and balloon so the cannonade is used more for getting out of a jam than actually killing.

This build has won and lost about the same number of matches. It is weak against squids and blender fish, but strong against pyramidions, galleons and junkers, provided it does not get ambushed. Also with the entire crew shooting the hull occasionally gets neglected. This build requires a very observant engineer and an obedient gunner.

I like the sound of that Hamster. Haven't had a chance to play with the new Spire yet.

33
Gameplay / Re: 1.3.3 GUNS AND GUNNER SKILL BALANCE
« on: October 31, 2013, 07:12:57 am »
I managed to jump on the gatling last night for the first time since the patch and I've got to say, it feels a lot better with the new muzzle flash and tighter firing cone (presumably that's to do with the way raycast weapons are handled now?). It just seems tighter and punchier. As for whether it is or not, I'm not sure because I didn't get to test many ammo types with it. The bigger clip definitely opens up a bunch of possibilities with regards to ammo. Of all the changes suggested for this gun I'd be happy with increased RoF because knowing how it feels now that would make it even more satisfying, especially with the bigger clip. And besides, that's kind of what gatlings should be all about.

As for the engagement distances/range cuts I'm really liking the paradigm shift. (I'm not sure whether this belongs in this thread or the pilot thread to be honest.) I've been playing with/against a very well crewed Valiant sniper Spire the last couple of nights. I was part of their crew, I played against them as crew on other ships with different builds, captains and approaches, and as a captain on my own Mobula with randoms and with friends. What I've quickly realised (and I suspected as much when I read the changes) is that you really have to be inventive and use everything at your disposal to close the distance between you and the sniper. I'm sure this has always been the case against good snipers anyway but the closer brawling changes coupled with the Spire buffs really highlights how (much more) important your approach is now. It was pretty much a case of 'stay out of the sight of the Spire' because they were that good at popping ships out the sky. (Now to face a well crewed Galleon...)

On Paritan Rumble it reminded me of good ol' The Sentinel on the Spectrum, avoiding the deadly gaze of the sentinel (the Spire) watching over the map by keeping low but working your way slowly towards it to deal the killer blow. That's Paritan Rumble. On Battle of the Dunes however, there isn't so much obvious cover so we had to start moving along the dunes, amidst the wreckages and through the moving clouds, and risking the cover of sandstorms. We had to be opportunistic but careful and sly. Telling our teammate to 'avoid the Spire: you'll die if it sees you' and them learning the hard way meant that they started trying the same tactics. There was something incredibly satisfying about traversing the map out of sight only to park ourselves inside a sandstorm directly behind both enemy ships to lay waste to them. They didn't see us coming. One of the best moments I've had with GoIO so far without a doubt.

The thing is, while this quality may not be a direct result of the patch (the Spire was still a pretty solid sniper before) -- and I'm sure many here already do stuff like this for higher level play -- the range cuts are going to seriously highlight it for pub games and compel more players to utilise more of what's on offer -- different ships, gun loadouts, ranges, arcs, ammo types, the environment, altitude, teammates, communication, timing.

I can also vouch for the sighting difficulties.

While I do love the Hades cannon, in the hands of my gunner before the patch it was pretty devastating so now coupled with its increased piercing damage and projectile speed, and its range flexibility (greased or indendiary for short, lesmok for long) it might very well become the go-to gun for a lot of different builds. Having said this, my gunner's very good with it so I've no idea how effective it is in the hands of others on different ships.

34
Gameplay / Re: 1.3.3 ENGINEER AND REPAIR TOOL BALANCE
« on: October 30, 2013, 01:14:50 pm »
I'd like to see some sort of blue fire-proof timer/gauge, similar to the buff tool's, showing how much time is left before the chem spray needs to be reapplied because as a budding buff/chemgineer myself, keeping stock of what's freshly sprayed and what needs another blast while I'm running around in and out of fights is very tricky. 20 seconds might not sound like much but if you're clearing enough space and the damage is coming in thick and fast you need to know whether it's worth repairing or spraying in those crucial split seconds. You may have a circuit of spraying to keep a mental clock going but all it takes is one broken or focused component and suddenly all those timers start getting staggered! I think some sort of indication of how much protection is left would go some way in making the chem spray more forgiving to use without altering any of its stats. I'm not saying its stats shouldn't be altered but I think this would be a big improvement in a future patch.

35
Gameplay / Re: 1.3.3 GUNS AND GUNNER SKILL BALANCE
« on: October 30, 2013, 12:05:43 pm »
Except a gunner is now functionally mandatory for the Mortar
And the problem with this is....

Thank you Imagine, I'm glad somebody pulled this up.

Also, to everyone who is like WELL I'M OUT a day after a new patch...

really? I mean.... really?

I just read over this thread and holy hell, how are so many committed people getting so butthurt [...]

I know right? Anybody would think this was Muse's Final Patch before calling it a day.

Thanks for weighing in awkm and it's so good to hear you're trying to keep the 'decision space' as open as possible because, quite frankly, I get so tired of seeing the same safe builds over and over again. I'll always be glad to see more diversity and creativity, and viable diversity at that.

As I said in the pilot thread: while there are no direct pilot changes, pilots are going to have to dramatically alter the way they fly because of the range cuts. Gat/mortar pyra and blenderfish/pyra captains are going to have to think twice before simply charging an enemy down; brawlers are going to have to be a lot more creative and work even closer with their teammate(s) to approach enemy ships, and that can only be a good thing as far as I'm concerned.

I don't want to comment on the changes themselves just yet but I'm fully behind the reasons for them, even if the line is overshot now and then and some changes have to be dialled back -- you gotta break some eggs to make an omelette right? -- so keep up the good work awkm and co.

36
Gameplay / Re: 1.3.3 ENGINEER AND REPAIR TOOL BALANCE
« on: October 30, 2013, 06:12:41 am »
What about chem sprayed/fire-proofed components still being able to accumulate fire stacks but the fire doesn't do any damage until the fire-proofing wears off? Perhaps lit fire-proofed components could burn blue and the fire icon could be blue too (this would let everyone onboard know you're protected. Once the protection wears off the colours go back to normal). Perhaps chem sprayed components could reduce the effectiveness of the extinguisher, perhaps even negate it until the fire proofing wears off? Coupled with component debuffs (like slower engines, slower balloon ascending/descending, reduced rate of fire and/or weapon turning speed etc) this could introduce a nice high risk/high reward dynamic with the chem spray: do you hold-off fire damage entirely for x amount of time freeing up your engineers and deal with one massive almighty burst of accumlated fire when the chem spray expires or do you put the fires out immedieately as they appear, possibly impairing your crew and slowing repairs?

37
Gameplay / Re: 1.3.3 PILOT, PILOT SKILLS, AND SHIP BALANCE
« on: October 29, 2013, 08:15:22 am »
We have the odd rough game but that's usually down to uneven teams (this of course works both ways). I've never seen anyone fly my mobula build before though and it's frequently commented on after games. It's quite unorthodox and versatile, lending itself to shorter and longer ranges, higher and lower engagements, as well as newcomers and more experienced players. Granted, it's not a focused death machine like other builds but I think my loadout more than makes up for that. I've played against pilots with your mentality Krieg who have dismissed the mobula and fell foul to us focusing them down. Needless to say, subsequent games we were focused down! And yeah, that hurts ;-)


38
Gameplay / Re: 1.3.3 ENGINEER AND REPAIR TOOL BALANCE
« on: October 29, 2013, 07:49:54 am »
I like the sound of it reducing stacks over time rather than it outright blocking fire damage. It would almost free up engineers from putting out fires if the fires weren't heavy enough but the downside would be that fire would always do damage and chem spray wouldn't put fires out directly. It would pretty much force fire wielders to lay it on heavy and hard and this would in turn work well with the new fire stack icons/markers.

39
Gameplay / Re: 1.3.3 PILOT, PILOT SKILLS, AND SHIP BALANCE
« on: October 29, 2013, 07:47:25 am »
It's the ship I fly (flew?) the most Krieg so it definitely had a place before! ;-)

40
Gameplay / Re: 1.3.3 ENGINEER AND REPAIR TOOL BALANCE
« on: October 29, 2013, 07:27:48 am »
I think maintaining fire-proofing would be worth the cut in extinguish power if the fire-proofing could be sustained like a buff (meaning you'd have to juggle it across components for maximum effectiveness). With the Hades buff (I really don't think it needed buffing tbh) you might see a lot more fire to justify fire-proofing things before engagements.

41
Gameplay / Re: 1.3.3 ENGINEER AND REPAIR TOOL BALANCE
« on: October 29, 2013, 07:10:20 am »
Some time ago someone proposed turning the chem spray application into a buffing process, like the buffing tool, with the effect lasting longer but requiring multiple applications  of the chem spray in order to kick in.

Yeah I remember reading that somewhere and thought it was a great idea.

Chemgineers? Chemgineers.

42
Gameplay / Re: 1.3.3 PILOT, PILOT SKILLS, AND SHIP BALANCE
« on: October 29, 2013, 07:06:49 am »
The spire has superior firepower at a specific range. I'm not saying the mobula is fine as is now, what I am saying is that there are other differences and reasons for choosing one over the other (some mentioned above). Whether those differences are substantial enough right now I don't know. I'll see later when I have a play with the new patch.

43
Gameplay / Re: 1.3.3 PILOT, PILOT SKILLS, AND SHIP BALANCE
« on: October 29, 2013, 06:34:32 am »
That's exactly what's fun about the mobula for me! And like the spire, there's plenty of risk involved with that much firepower frontloaded on a more fragile ship that's harder to repair and maneuver. If you're wanting glass cannons and light weapons platforms, the spire and mobula are the ships for you. If you're wanting something else, you've got the junker, pyra, squid, galleon and goldfish. It's nice to have the choice.

44
Gameplay / Re: 1.3.3 PILOT, PILOT SKILLS, AND SHIP BALANCE
« on: October 29, 2013, 06:25:49 am »
As a pretty formidable mobula pilot I'm keen to see how the patch will affect the viability of it. Don't forget the dual trifectas have pretty big implications when it comes to deciding the range of engagements (as NoWuffo points out above), not to mention the balloon position, vertical size/height and manueverability of the mobula compared to the spire. I'm sure I'll find out the hard way tonight! Looking forward to flying the spire again too. I've always had a soft spot for it.

While there might not be any direct piloting changes, there's going to have to be some changes out there in the skies now the engagement distances have altered so dramatically. Brawlers are going to have to be a lot more creative. I'll be glad to see fewer gat/mortar pyras and blenderfish/pyras flying directly at me if nothing else as well! I kind of love the disarray after a patch.

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