Author Topic: My renewed argument for Free to play  (Read 4510 times)

Offline Narayan

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My renewed argument for Free to play
« on: May 07, 2017, 09:34:27 pm »
Here are the steamcharts for guns of icarus

http://steamcharts.com/app/209080


Here is what it sells for on g2a

https://www.g2a.com/guns-of-icarus-online-steam-cd-key-global.html?___store=englishus


Here is what a balanced lobby looks like

http://imgur.com/a/w1hPC



Its time for free to play for the base game, and sell the expansion. You cant steam sale a game thats a buck on g2a, and you cant bring people back for alliance beta as its released.

« Last Edit: May 07, 2017, 09:49:21 pm by Narayan »

Offline Not Raged

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Re: My renewed argument for Free to play
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2017, 09:48:22 pm »
I am no scientist, but between the charts and everything else. i cant argue with his point 

Offline Daft Loon

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Re: My renewed argument for Free to play
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2017, 11:51:28 pm »
Most likely muse will re-pin their hopes from alliance onto:
A - Some kind of promotion to go along with the final 2 factions releasing
B - Releasing the game on PS4

Also to summarize my post from the similar post to this on the steam forum - No fix to matchmaker + lobby wait times = Failed attempt to revive the game

Offline Byron Cavendish

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Re: My renewed argument for Free to play
« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2017, 05:33:27 am »
It honestly doesn't matter what they do. Alliance is irrelevant. The damage was done years ago, and there is no coming back from that. The opportunity passed.

Offline compleatnewb

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Re: My renewed argument for Free to play
« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2017, 01:20:53 pm »
I think each sale has shown that new players will come in droves at the right price point.

You would expect a similar influx with Free to play.

But I also think that this influx of new players will dwindle down to nothing again, just as it has after every sale.

Clearly player retention is the real problem.


Offline Narayan

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Re: My renewed argument for Free to play
« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2017, 01:55:14 pm »
I think each sale has shown that new players will come in droves at the right price point.

You would expect a similar influx with Free to play.

But I also think that this influx of new players will dwindle down to nothing again, just as it has after every sale.

Clearly player retention is the real problem.

Yes but the steam sales were an event that lasted a small amount of time. With free to play the game would be free forever and the influx would be unending, at least in terms of a steam sale like timeline. With a constant influx of new players instead of just around a timed event perhaps the binges and purges wouldn't be quite as bad.

At any rate no noob is gonna stick around as is to get stomped by Ryder and whoever else they are stacking with.

Offline Sparkle Dust

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Re: My renewed argument for Free to play
« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2017, 05:51:08 pm »
It honestly doesn't matter what they do. Alliance is irrelevant. The damage was done years ago, and there is no coming back from that. The opportunity passed.

I'm inclined to agree with this. Current player levels are abysmal, alliance is proving to be the last nail in the coffin for GOI.


I've said in my open letter threads, you cannot go on ignoring your customers and be successful in business.  At some point you either have to develop a little humility and admit that you've made a bunch of bad decisions, or you can go off to the scrap heap. 

The player base isn't blameless either, every one of you who runs around with a stack and n00b stomps have a hand in this too.  I hope your little cliques were worth killing the game for.

Offline Kestril

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Re: My renewed argument for Free to play
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2017, 12:30:48 am »
Well it was a good run!  ;)

Tonight I took a newbie clan aboard a shrike and managed an underdog win against some experienced players. Getting the newbies gud reminded me of the good ol' days.  I've had a blast with GOIO and will continue to log on for some good chaos skirmishes and the odd match or two.

Hindsight 20/20.  I agree that player retention was the problem. Balance updates were few and far between, and community feedback was often processed in a very opaque manner. It never felt like the devs were confident in their skirmish experience, nor as enthusiastic about it as their community.  It showed with their laser-focus on alliance at the expense of the competitive and skirmish scene.

Now muse have learned and gotten the message with the MK. II guns and new maps, but

It honestly doesn't matter what they do. Alliance is irrelevant. The damage was done years ago, and there is no coming back from that. The opportunity passed.

That says it all.

Hopefully, the muse folk will make a teamwork-focused game in the future, or maybe a muse may retain an influx of players if they do decide to go F2P from the lessons they've learned.

P.S. Some idle thoughts:
This is just my take, but It felt like their innermost burningpassion was more PvE focused, and sometimes at odds with the PvP-focused community. While the result turned out great, It felt like a PvP skirmish game wasn't the game they wanted to make. They worked on alliance, but, for one reason or another it felt like muse was constrained by deadlines and budget. They compromised and it felt like alliance was still only half-step short of the original Kickstarter adventure mode.

This post isn't meant to bash or anything, it's just my idle thoughts and take on the matter.

o7 Muse, it was fun. I've improved my leadership and teaching skills, and met some friends and had some great moments in GOIO! This game was worth it. I wish you all success in the future.

quack quack and stay sassy!

Offline Red-Xiii

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Re: My renewed argument for Free to play
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2017, 03:47:27 am »

Quote
The player base isn't blameless either, every one of you who runs around with a stack and n00b stomps have a hand in this too.  I hope your little cliques were worth killing the game for.

In the history of Goio, NAY the history of gaming,  NAY the history of ALL COMPETITIVE GAMES, associations - friends - clans - working relationships are always created.  This has nothing to do with the demise of the game.  At all.  Balancing among many other things was on Muse.  Not the community.  Every single Vet here over time I know has tried their damndest to swap ships, be the underdog, until basically they became so salty they just get tired of doing it.  Suddenly they spend more time attempting to balance then paying attention to what the hell they are doing on their ship.  I used to be biggest advocate of training novices till i realized I was fighting a losing battle against the devs..  Those I did put my time into were worth it though.

I and my crew are along the same lines as Kestril here.  I've gained more from this game then Muse probably knew they could provide which basically means the rewards were of my OWN making.  Friends, memories, some good times, some bad, were all because of myself and friends.  Muse isnt looking out for us in any respect and we are moving along to greener pastures. 

It doesnt matter if it goes free to play.  It's been dead a long time.  Player surge from sales or free to play can't revive this or increase the player base enough to be a welcome addition to the current games we play.  It's a cash grab for Muse at this point.  Get as much as they can while they can.

It is an amazing game.  However to me it's always going to feel like it was unfinished, unpolished, and never realized full potential.


Offline Sparkle Dust

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Re: My renewed argument for Free to play
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2017, 05:01:16 pm »

Quote
The player base isn't blameless either, every one of you who runs around with a stack and n00b stomps have a hand in this too.  I hope your little cliques were worth killing the game for.

In the history of Goio, NAY the history of gaming,  NAY the history of ALL COMPETITIVE GAMES, associations - friends - clans - working relationships are always created.  This has nothing to do with the demise of the game.  At all.  Balancing among many other things was on Muse.  Not the community.  Every single Vet here over time I know has tried their damndest to swap ships, be the underdog, until basically they became so salty they just get tired of doing it.  Suddenly they spend more time attempting to balance then paying attention to what the hell they are doing on their ship.  I used to be biggest advocate of training novices till i realized I was fighting a losing battle against the devs..  Those I did put my time into were worth it though.


OK, let me blow your mind here. Swapping one high level ship doesn't balance a lobby.  If you really want to spread the talent evenly you need to break up the circle jerks and divide the high level people among different ships. 

I know, I know, here comes the battle cry of moody 13 year olds everywhere "BUT I WANT TO PLAY WITH MY FRIENDS!".  Bullshit, you want to play with people who know what they're doing. Funny how all this shit i get for how I treat n00bs comes from people who never fly  with them.


Anyway, good epitaph for muse, I look forward to dancing on the grave.

Offline Daft Loon

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Re: My renewed argument for Free to play
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2017, 07:27:24 pm »
...If you really want to spread the talent evenly you need to break up the circle jerks and divide the high level people among different ships.  ...

And when main engineering for a failing pyramidion rapidly stopped being fun the people who did that either went back to some extent of stomping or left entirely. Meanwhile a bunch more new players also left because of some "teacher" adding 5 minutes to every lobby in an attempt to talk to a brick wall.


Anyway, good epitaph for muse, I look forward to dancing on the grave.

Did Howard run over your dog or something  :'(

Offline Sparkle Dust

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Re: My renewed argument for Free to play
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2017, 08:31:21 pm »
...If you really want to spread the talent evenly you need to break up the circle jerks and divide the high level people among different ships.  ...

And when main engineering for a failing pyramidion rapidly stopped being fun the people who did that either went back to some extent of stomping or left entirely. Meanwhile a bunch more new players also left because of some "teacher" adding 5 minutes to every lobby in an attempt to talk to a brick wall.

As I've said many times, playing with n00bs is awful. However you will never find the people receptive to being taught when they quit the game because every match is a 5-0 slaughter.  If I didn't play almost exclusively with randumbs I would have about 6 fewer months of bans (totally worth it though). 

Now if you're going to make the argument that this was inevitable, that the only possible way things could be was people staying in their cliques because they just can't handle scrubs I'm not going to argue. The attitudes of nearly every high level when it comes to being separated from their preferred lunch table is a convincing argument.  If only people were honest and not so quick to ride their high horse all the way to the servers being shut down.


Anyway, good epitaph for muse, I look forward to dancing on the grave.

Did Howard run over your dog or something  :'(

Send me your address, I'll mail you the 3 ring binder detailing all the absolute bullshit I've gotten from this company.

Offline Daft Loon

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Re: My renewed argument for Free to play
« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2017, 09:16:39 pm »
I see what you mean about people on high horses etc, but I don't think even a miraculous change in veteran player behavior would have helped much, I'm basing that on the fact that for me at least the game became distinctively less fun when I started caring about not ruining it for other players and only really recovered when I stopped caring about playing "properly" and basically went back to being a scrub myself.

Offline RearAdmiralZill

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Re: My renewed argument for Free to play
« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2017, 11:45:02 am »
Lets keep things civil and on topic guys.

Too much doom and gloom here...I remember days where the average pop was ~30. Call me an optimist, but I'd hate to see Guns die with final conversation like this. I'm not buying the "end times" talk.

Offline Narayan

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Re: My renewed argument for Free to play
« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2017, 12:20:31 pm »
Well again that's why I'm suggesting free to play for the base game. I mean if it's selling for a dollar anyway free isn't that much cheaper considering you will have a crack at selling those guys and girls alliance plus the item shop.

I wanna see guns great again, but we need to avoid putting up a pay wall on a 6 year old game that is only selling for a dollar anyway.