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Its about time we revived the comp scene
CogHead:
--- Quote from: Hoja Lateralus on November 08, 2016, 05:05:25 pm ---...
>"For tournament to work people need votekick"
Good luck with that m8 xddd
...
ii) following your discussion; creating your version of the event is virtually impossible at this moment (i.e. votekick issue)
...
--- End quote ---
While I mostly agree with you, or don't know enough to form an opinion on other aspects, it looks like you misunderstand what votekick means. Votekick, where players vote on who to kick, can be abused, and Muse is against it, but it was never even mentioned in this thread. For the lobby moderator, to kick someone, the moderator would NOT need to put the question up to vote, he/she would simply kick the player from the lobby.
I think this would be a welcomed feature - since it doesn't interfere with matchmaker, it's already private - in any password protected lobby, alongside with other moderation tools like forced map and gamemode change, timer manipulation, force start, ship lock, etc.
Hoja Lateralus:
I think when devs are afraid to give people votekick, they would be very reluctant to allow 'one' person to kick people out as he desires, even if it's only in private lobbies.
Edit: Fair enough though, I've written to hastily and shouldn't have said 'votekick'
MightyKeb:
--- Quote from: Hoja Lateralus on November 08, 2016, 05:05:25 pm ---
I think you confuse cause and effect here. Low population isn't cause by lack of events. Lack of events is caused by bad game design leading to low population. It's clearly visible: there are people eager to organise tournaments but nobody* wants to play. Even popular things like Iron Fork or Munker Madness have troubles to fill in lobby. Devs throw up their arms and say "well, low population, what can we do..." except they have had 4 years to get [more] people to play.
*except for tryhard vets that we don't consider in such discussions I think
--- End quote ---
..?
"We can't make an event because the game is designed badly" - I don't see how that makes sense. And frankly coming from someone who, as far as my knowledge goes has never been in any mildly serious event nor cares about said events, I'd like to hear your perspective on what part of the game is badly designed, because you haven't explained it yet.
There aren't a bazzilion teams playing in the tournaments because a majority of the clans that have interest either cannot organize or don't have more than one ship worth of people interested. To testify one of these points: Cronus League, a 1-ship tournament held in January 2015 managed to accumulate up to 25 teams. For the playerbase of such a game, I think that is a more than acceptable amount.
Then there's the novice side of things. You have to be a bloody archeologist to dig through to the events page and figure out what's what. And when you do, and take your pure novice team to a big tourney, you probably have no practice, no idea how to play and no idea what to expect because now you have to be a master archeologist to find all the tournament uploads on youtube and watch them to get an idea of who you're going up agains't and how this game is played up there. And 99% of the time, you aren't. So you get smashed and you stop attending. There are examples of this in Blood & Brass aswell as 7 Deadly Ships. I guarantee you Big Brass could gather atleast 3 novice teams at worst if this event was advertised through the big window on the right of the launch screen.
While both vet and novice section of this community have different troubles in regards to signing up to events, it all stems from a lack of streamlining for competitive. You don't consider tryhard vets because those are the only type of people who usually play in those events,because for anyone and everyone else it's too much effort to even sign up. It's been a while since I've agreed with ceres, but he makes a fair point.
--- Quote from: Arturo Sanchez on November 08, 2016, 10:58:45 am ---
--- Quote from: Solidusbucket on November 08, 2016, 07:07:27 am ---Eh.. guaras, thats a huge turn off to do all that searching, asking etc just to try to get enough people that are interested in trying competitive only to be stomped.
OP is right. An open invite, competitive environment event is exactly the kind of thing necessary to get more people (with limited experience) interested and in one central location (lobby). It will naturally do EVERYTHING you just said regarding asking and searching for others while at the same time giving them a solid platform to start their adventure into competitive playstyle/mindset wothout all the tedious footwork.
Id say having a concurrent event on Sunday along with SCS would be perfect for such an event becuse then it advertises / recruits the types of players that are already on at that time. They join, they meet friends, they form lasting teams, they eventually "graduate" from the open invite event, then they sign up for scs. They wont mind getting stomped as much (they can always go back to open invite if theyre bad enough), theyre accustommed to the rules, and they understand the brackets / competitive mindset. All this without the footwork.
Lobby creators DO need a kick button when lobby is private. Thats necessary. It really is. An event like this would only need one person per 2v2 lobby to stream it / ref / host.
--- End quote ---
Muse making this systematic will go a long ass way for this. They need to shift the game's system to compliment this (something that should have been done 2 years ago)
--- End quote ---
Schwalbe:
Keb, what Disaster implies:
bad design -> low population -> the percent of people who would actually be interested is too miniscule for such event to actually become a thing.
By bad design he can mean anything that keeps some people away from the game: high learning curve, chaos ensuing when you have no clue, matchmaker leading to growth of a numbness when it comes to stomp the newbies, or just simple fact that one guy who doesn't know what he is doing or is outright trolling is able to ruin your day and make all your effort/skill worth shit.
Because, let's face it. New players are not jumping into competetive events right from the get-go, they first spend some time in pub matches - and when you have certain factors in pub matches that ruins your experience, then why would you stay in the game at all, not to mention jumping to competetive, right?
Disaster, if I'm mistaken in anything, point it out - we both know I'm a retarded fuck.
Urz:
As a person who spent years trying to convince Muse to focus on the competitive side of their game, let me inform you—it's not going to happen.
Muse has devoted nearly all of their development efforts on a non-competitive PvE expansion, which in the meantime has crippled Skirmish mode. This de-prioritization of Skirmish has led to: lack of new content, bad client performance, unfixed bugs, lack of regular and necessary balance changes.
You talk about a "competitive queue", but this already exists: veteran matchmaking. The problem is with the game population so low right now, separating out queueing players into "buckets" just means the less popular buckets will never actually fill. Ditto for "MMR"—the game theoretically takes a hidden MMR into account, but there are not enough players to find balanced opponents, so after 30 seconds it gives up and matches you with whoever.
You say that "open lobby" events are the answer—but between Iron Fork, Munker Mondays, Chaos Skirmish, and other one-time or more sporadic events—these have not helped the competitive scene grow.
The only path I see for future growth of competitive Guns is the following:
1. Alliance is finally released, and fails to maintain a meaningful playerbase.
2. Muse Games isn't immediately dissolved.
3. Howard finds the light of our Lord Jesus Christ.
4. Muse decides to leverage the strength of their game as one of the most unique competitive experiences on the market, refocusing entirely on Skirmish development.
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