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SCS rules discussions

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Dementio:

--- Quote from: Red-Xiii on September 06, 2016, 02:43:22 pm ---Losing a single ScS to a coin flip is too much.   And playing aggressively in itself is not an issue.  Forcing you to do so is when it may or may not be your style, plan, or choice is.  But that's just my opinion.  With these player counts lately this all may be moot anyway. :'(

--- End quote ---

It's not the rules that force you to be aggressive mate, it is the literal gamemode. The mentality of a defense oriented team is that if they let the enemy attack, they are already set in a position to fend of that attack and gain kills in a less "riskier" and less aggressive manner. But the problem is, if the enemy team knows that, then their best call is to not attack at all. You can't win the game if you never attack, and that goes for both teams.

So what will it be, give the victory to the team that sat still for 20min because they played defensively and so shouldn't be forced to be aggressive or give the win to the team that has a more aggressive ship comp, but isn't stupid enough to suicide into the defensive team's setup? I will give you the answer: Nobody deserves to win, because neither actually did anything. If you didn't kill anything, you didn't get any points, that are the rules of deathmatch and the SCS is build on top of that. If you don't like the deathmatch rules, I suggest you look into ways of getting Muse to implement gamemodes that are more defense oriented, but even then it is not guaranteed that you don't have to be aggressive at least once or will never ever have to be on the aggressive side.

tl;dr: Aggressive playing cannot be avoided in deathmatch. It is not a gamemode where sitting still and never attacking will lead to a victory.


--- Quote from: sparklerfish on September 06, 2016, 03:49:42 pm ---The coin flip is the worst when you are still in combat.  In the case of the SCS that this came up in, the kill came approximately two seconds after time was called, but due to time being called, it went to a coin flip, and the team without the kill was awarded the win.

--- End quote ---

Now I don't know what really happened in the team comms, but from my point of view, what happened was they thought "Oh damn, the time is about to run out, let's quickly try to get this kill before it is too late!" and tunnel visioned on that Goldfish. During that, the blue team's Goldfish was retreating out of instinct, afraid they would die and instead of giving them the red team the kill, they opted a 0-0 coin flip would mean a higher chance of victory. Although to be honest, I don't think any team ever was going for the coin flip, but primarily thought "Don't let the other team win.". Especially in this case I believe it was Blue: "Don't let the other team win!" and Red: "Let's win this!".

Also, fun fact: It was only a kill that "came approximately two seconds after time was called", because of the extra 3 minutes that overtime provided you. Before overtime was implemented, there was only 20 minutes instead of 23. The official time had already been called, but a kill that came 3 minutes after time was called doesn't sound quite as close, does it? Overtime was only implemented to avoid scenarios like these where one more second could have led to a kill and thus to victory and it has a time limit, because it prevents sniping duels to go on forever, which would negate the point of a normal time limit in the first place. If overtime is still not enough time to get a kill for either team, well, who really deserves to win?

Spud Nick:
I like all of the rules that are in the SCS right now. I think it's important to understand that the rules are for the viewers as well as the players participating. Keep your matches interesting and entertaining.

Fynx:

--- Quote from: Spud Nick on September 07, 2016, 10:17:56 am ---I like all of the rules that are in the SCS right now. I think it's important to understand that the rules are for the viewers as well as the players participating. Keep your matches interesting and entertaining.

--- End quote ---

My thoughts exactly.

People have been playing for a while now, it's not surprising the current rules prevent some bad habits and provide some unpleasant solutions instead.
There are loopholes that cannot be fixed, so playing in a gentelmanly way is the only solution there. Such as people running away until the end of the match, because they're winning 1-1 with kill advantage against slower ship combination. Or ships hiding in some corner nobody will ever look at. Or accessing the stream while playing the match. Why do you even play this match in the first place...

But then, it's impossible to form rules that prevent such situations. That's why it's considered mandatory to play nice and teams may ask for something that is beneficial to the quality of the game. Even if it's against the rules and works in favour of one team.

WATERitsME:
CoinFlippin
I would also have to reinforce the coin flip, although it may not reward the team which played better, 20 minutes is long enough to either get a kill, or accept failure... One could argue that the overtime could be increased by two minutes to give each team a final 1/4 of the match time, but noone wants to see or probobly even play a 25min match with no kills. it becomes boring for the spectators and stressful for crew, knowing first kill is match point.

Stream Snipin
One simple option to this is to have the streamers increas their delay time by 2 or 3 minutes (or even more). There would be little to no disadvantage to this, besides possibly spectators hearing from their friends participating in scs, who won and lost, and than commenting on the stream, possibly spoiling the entertainment. Nevertheless it would eliminate the possibility for tactical advantages though stream sniping... Honestly i think this is a great idea, and will talk to lysanya about this option for next SCS.

On A Different Note
As we saw last SCS (#118) a team had some troubles finding their team mates and substitutions, and i hinted that they should be able to use their team pause time to increase their lobby time, which is not currently permitted. I think this is something we should consider including in the SCS rule set, as not only missing or disconnected members can be recovered, but also disoriented teams will have a chance to go into their game prepared and not immediately lose 'the lobby game'. It will furthermore give newer teams the ability to have a "oh shit" moment to finalize their ship and crew load outs in case their captains were busy discussing tactics and counter picks. I would say it should not be encouraged as it would be a shame to see teams use their pause every single match to increase the lobby time, leaving castors and their spectators twiddling their thumbs... Finally the pause should only be able to be called when ships are still unlocked. Once ships are locked no pause should be able to be called...

WATERitsME:
also that might help against last minute counter picks, as teams could decide that they have been countered too hard and use their pause to change their ship to something more versitle. It would also provent people from doing last minute picks as they would know that the enemy team might catch on to it in time, and make them look like fools for trying such dirty tricks x)

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