Author Topic: Spire Engineers  (Read 14588 times)

Offline Spud Nick

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Spire Engineers
« on: June 20, 2016, 03:36:59 am »
Is it better to leave both lower deck guns for the gunner and have both engineers on the top deck? Or is it better to have one engineer on the lower deck and one on top. Discuss below.

Offline Clockeye

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Re: Spire Engineers
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2016, 04:27:17 am »
Every game I played the captain left one enie at the top, one at the bottom.
even though I never piloted a spire in the match yet.

Offline Daft Loon

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Re: Spire Engineers
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2016, 05:02:45 am »
I tend to go both ways for 2 main reasons

- An extra engineer up top so the usually important top left gun can fire while armor repairs are underway

- Only one up top because I want to shoot the top right gun myself

Usually both up top is for one of my allegedly strong builds for use with skilled and coordinated crew while the single engineer top setup is so i can use (as pilot) a minelauncher or artemis to defend against charges or hades/lumberjack respectively.

Main weaknesses of each as I see them:

- Double top engi - Pipewrench rebuild on a broken heavy gun is rather crippling

- Single top engi - Armor breaks and an important gun stops shooting

Offline Clockeye

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Re: Spire Engineers
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2016, 05:10:35 am »
I tend to go both ways for 2 main reasons

- An extra engineer up top so the usually important top left gun can fire while armor repairs are underway

- Only one up top because I want to shoot the top right gun myself

Usually both up top is for one of my allegedly strong builds for use with skilled and coordinated crew while the single engineer top setup is so i can use (as pilot) a minelauncher or artemis to defend against charges or hades/lumberjack respectively.

Main weaknesses of each as I see them:

- Double top engi - Pipewrench rebuild on a broken heavy gun is rather crippling

- Single top engi - Armor breaks and an important gun stops shooting

Maybe it's a noob question(surely is) but....
What if you switch your light guns?
Like, putting that gun on the bottom.... wouldn't it work for engie top engie bottom?

Offline Huskarr

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Re: Spire Engineers
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2016, 08:45:20 am »
Personaly I prefer to have 2 engineers top.

Most of the time I fly long range spire with a lumberjack and Mine for the gunner and a hades art top. And I tend to wrench the hull myself. I usually send one engineer down if I know I'll be poped a lot. In that situation I swap the mine for an art and put a flare on the right side, but that's personal preference. In this case the art won't be fired a lot though, because the balloon engie has to camp balloon.

I personaly don't fly close range spire, but most captains prefer two engis on top.

Offline Solidusbucket

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Re: Spire Engineers
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2016, 08:48:21 am »
I tend to go both ways for 2 main reasons

- An extra engineer up top so the usually important top left gun can fire while armor repairs are underway

- Only one up top because I want to shoot the top right gun myself

Usually both up top is for one of my allegedly strong builds for use with skilled and coordinated crew while the single engineer top setup is so i can use (as pilot) a minelauncher or artemis to defend against charges or hades/lumberjack respectively.

Main weaknesses of each as I see them:

- Double top engi - Pipewrench rebuild on a broken heavy gun is rather crippling

- Single top engi - Armor breaks and an important gun stops shooting

This.

hwacha gat banshee - two up top

flak hades gat - one up one down

lumberjack artemis - one up one down




Offline Dementio

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Re: Spire Engineers
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2016, 09:42:42 am »
What if you switch your light guns?
Like, putting that gun on the bottom.... wouldn't it work for engie top engie bottom?

Yes that works, as long as your gun still has arc. The bottom side gun doesn't aim directly forward like the top left gun does, so you have a difficult time running a Hades down there and a Mercury simply won't work. In these cases running double engineer on the top deck may very well be a good idea, since if you only had one engineer for the top deck and you put him on the Hades, he will never shoot the Hades, because he will be busy repairing the armor.

A thing I like is making my ship work without the top guns and so have one engineer on the top deck and one on the bottom, if the heavy gun gets destroyed too much / the enemy gets inside arming time, then the gunner can run the bottom side gun while the bottom engineer either buffs or rebuilds the bottom guns or can afford to spend his full attention to the engines and balloon.
An exception to that is when I make my gunner primarily use one of the top guns and keep the heavy gun for secondary use for either the gunner or the bottom engineer.

I never run double engineer on the top deck, because I don't see it solve any actual crew problems that the average one engi top and one engi bottom strategy introduces. If the armor is damaged, you need one engineer to fix it. If the balloon or the bottom engines are damaged, you need one engineer to fix it. If you both engineer have the Mallet/Spanner loadout so the less important gun engineer is able to repair any component all the time and the second engineer is only required in the emergancy when everything dies, you will then lose buff and you really want buff to speed up your huge, easy to hit ship. If both engineers are on top deck, then it is very likely that the balloon (!!!) will lose chem spray and die due to fire. That also means the gunner's gun is not chem sprayed (#Flare).

- An extra engineer up top so the usually important top left gun can fire while armor repairs are underway
There is something wrong with this sentence and the Metamidion is a prime example of why this sentence is wrong. The engineer is using the important gun, why is the engineer using the important gun, why not the gunner/gungineer? If your gunner/gungineer is not using the important gun, it isn't actually important. Of course, the Mortar for a Metamidion is just as important as the Gatling, but the Gatling is the actual important gun, because it is required to shoot constantly. If you have two guns that need to shoot constantly, like a Lumberjack/Hades Spire, then only one will actually shoot constantly and you have to decide which one will be it, the Lumberjack for the consistent balloon destruction or the Hades for the consistent armor destruction so your Flak has more chances to finish them?

The one problem most Spires have is that they for some reason think the engineer can somehow get away with shooting the important gun, but that's not how it works.

Offline VomAct

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Re: Spire Engineers
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2016, 02:37:56 pm »
It depends on the build.  The Spire I typically run has a Lumberjack and light flak downstairs and a hades and artemis/flare/minelauncher upstairs.  The fourth gun slot is mainly used as support, with one engineer being gungineer and shooting hades pretty much all the time, and the other engineer shooting the 4th gun some of the time, and repairing most of the time.  The gunner swaps between LJ and light flak depending on the status of the enemy ship.  Once they get inside your arming time, you are pretty much stuck to trying to evade and tanking anyways and most of the time you are dead if that happens.

Offline Arturo Sanchez

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Re: Spire Engineers
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2016, 06:32:20 pm »
Entirely depends if the balloon has a chance of being in danger.

Otherwise I favour top guns. Since to fix the balloon you can instantly get there by jumping down. Its the climb back up is the issue.

My lumber spire is the lower deck explosive main (so is assigned both hull balloon-until pop or explsove occurs by which point the lumberjack easily controls enemy arcs to safely fire explosive) and lumber gunner with hades gungi on top.

Meta spire, hades/gat with carosel/flak with heavyflak/hwacha. Both top deck as I'm aware I can take hits that will mostly be pierce and only occassionally have to worry about fire. A very common pub stomp spire since I rarely get the crew to use the lumber spire.

Offline Daft Loon

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Re: Spire Engineers
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2016, 07:15:37 pm »
...
The one problem most Spires have is that they for some reason think the engineer can somehow get away with shooting the important gun, but that's not how it works.

A spire that doesn't try to get away with having at least 2 crew focused heavily on shooting is essentially just a tall, slow goldfish. Having the engineer responsible for balloon repair shoot the secondary gun is one way to do this since balloon repairs can be delayed far longer than Armor repairs.



When allocating both lower deck guns to the gunner what do people prefer the light gun's role be?

-Firepower (emptying a clip every heavy gun reload for extra damage)
-Kill power (shooting the light gun only on armor break)
-Utility (pairing a mine with a lumberjack to cancel the arming time risk)
-Something else?