SHIPS Balance Questions and Concerns v1.2

[Ofiach]

I'm finding the spire to be an amazing 1 on 1 ship or even a 2 on 1 ship right now thanks to the artemis and lumberjack trifecta.

2 Artemis up top and a lumberjack main gun can demolish just about any ship on any of the bigger maps before he gets close enough to do anything except sneeze on me. I can have my right or left artemis gunner knock out an incoming ships weapons before they get to me. Effectively making it a situation of you have to ram me or else I'll just peck you to death.

I know alot of people are saying the captain should be on the right hand gun but honestly with both engineers up top on artemis systems the need to repair is almost non existent in 2 v 2 matches. It is also easy enough for a good engie to jump straight down the ladder and get on repairs quickly if we do get surprised.

I played a game just to test it with the banshee light rockets and while not as dominating as the Artemis it was still surprisingly easy to suppress enemy weapons in a 1 v 1.

That being said I don't know if this is an issue with the Artemis or the spire. Being able to put 3 forward guns on an enemy without much effort is an amazing ability.

[Queso]

I'd say it's the artemis doing the work. The lumberjack just deals the insulting death blow.

[Machiavelliest]

you see so many Junkers right now is the new artemis. You can get a trifecta so easily with them that its becoming the new meta missile boat.

In terms of ship balance, the Junker turns WAY too fast.  I don't even bring the Phoenix claw.  It's like a Squid turn.  The rotational drag on that craft is way off.  I can score a trifecta from any orientation in 3 seconds.

[Nidh]

It may just be the ridiculous disabling power of the Hwacha and Artemis, but the Galleon seems a bit underpowered in a 1v1 situation. I get that the Galleon is mainly a long range support, but I've tried nearly every combination of weapons and still our enemies tend to just get in close and fly circles around us. There is no way for the Galleon to stay at range since to get out of range I'd have to lose target with the guns, and it's too slow to make it worth running in the first place. The close range "defensive" guns for the Galleon, Hwacha or Carronade, don't have nearly enough killing power to be worthwhile. Heck I had a Hwachafish park on our left, and we had double Hwachas but it turned out to be a ridiculously drawn out, disable-counter disable trade for 10 min straight until his ally showed up and killed us. Our right side was useless because lumber-flack does nothing at close range.  If I had carronades on the left I'm sure the Goldfish would have plenty of time to just repair their front gun and balloon, since that's all they needed to keep us pinned. We couldn't run because the second we turned, our engines would die. If I had turned-tail before the had gotten to us, well, they would've caught up anyway. The only thing the Galleon has going for it is it's firepower, and that is easily nullified up close.

[RearAdmiralZill]

It may just be the ridiculous disabling power of the Hwacha and Artemis, but the Galleon seems a bit underpowered in a 1v1 situation. I get that the Galleon is mainly a long range support, but I've tried nearly every combination of weapons and still our enemies tend to just get in close and fly circles around us. There is no way for the Galleon to stay at range since to get out of range I'd have to lose target with the guns, and it's too slow to make it worth running in the first place. The close range "defensive" guns for the Galleon, Hwacha or Carronade, don't have nearly enough killing power to be worthwhile. Heck I had a Hwachafish park on our left, and we had double Hwachas but it turned out to be a ridiculously drawn out, disable-counter disable trade for 10 min straight until his ally showed up and killed us. Our right side was useless because lumber-flack does nothing at close range.  If I had carronades on the left I'm sure the Goldfish would have plenty of time to just repair their front gun and balloon, since that's all they needed to keep us pinned. We couldn't run because the second we turned, our engines would die. If I had turned-tail before the had gotten to us, well, they would've caught up anyway. The only thing the Galleon has going for it is it's firepower, and that is easily nullified up close.

I've had different experiences, minus the artemis issue. One artemis sniping out your galleon's everything really is a frustrating thing and 95% of the time requires ally intervention.

Apart from that, I usually don't have issues with keeping people in my broadsides. Not sure what kind of crew you have, but your gunners play a big role in keeping people away, or the clever maneuvering to get them on your short side. Dual hwacha it devastating at those short ranges. Try to make your guys stagger the barrages, so you have a more constant stream of rockets hitting them. Carronades work too, or a combo of both, but I'd rather grab a kill without moving too much, so popping their balloon isn't ideal.

This is also coming from a guy who like to play a full carronade galleon at times.

[Nidh]

I had my crew repair within a single hit of repairing the guns, wait for the barrage, then full repair and counter disable. Still went on for ages. I have no trouble keeping the broadsides of my ship in line with the enemy, but usually the amount of shots that hit are 10-20% of the shots fired. I don't have a crew so it's almost always low level randoms on my ship.

This is coming from a guy who has flown a Galleon 90% of the time since he started playing.

[Captain Smollett]

but usually the amount of shots that hit are 10-20% of the shots fired. I don't have a crew so it's almost always low level randoms on my ship.

This is coming from a guy who has flown a Galleon 90% of the time since he started playing.

Well, I think I found your Galleon problem. The Galleon is really a gunners ship; the success of the crew is highly dependent on the skill of the gunnery. That and try putting your long range weapons on your left/port side. The additional light gun can turn the tide of the engagement and kill many enemies before they get anywhere near enough to fly circles around you.

[Squash]

Also, slow the hell down, shooting sideways from a moving airship is extremely difficult, especially with medium guns. Most gunners wont manage to get hits unless you're completely stopped, and even the best of the best have enormous trouble with even half speed.

[Nidh]

Hey. What did I just say? I've been playing since beta and 90% of the time I fly a Galleon. I put my long range on the left side, and usually I'm hardly moving at all. I KNOW HOW TO FLY.

[NikolaiLev]

Heck I had a Hwachafish park on our left, and we had double Hwachas but it turned out to be a ridiculously drawn out, disable-counter disable trade for 10 min straight until his ally showed up and killed us.

Hey. What did I just say? I've been playing since beta and 90% of the time I fly a Galleon. I put my long range on the left side, and usually I'm hardly moving at all. I KNOW HOW TO FLY.

 

[Machiavelliest]

I will vouch for the frustration of the Galleon.  The Typhon and Lumberjack are functionally useless at close range, so the only option you have are the Hwacha or the Hellhound.  Even with heavy or charged, it can take a significant number of volleys to kill an enemy (it took 6-8 on a Goldfish with about 80% hit rate).  The way I see the Galleon builds, you either have a gat on the port medium mount and run a <800m ship, or you have a merc and run flack/jack.  I think a lot of people miss how the whole strategy really can hinge on port side gun fire instead of starboard fire.

[Nidh]

Heck I had a Hwachafish park on our left, and we had double Hwachas but it turned out to be a ridiculously drawn out, disable-counter disable trade for 10 min straight until his ally showed up and killed us.

Hey. What did I just say? I've been playing since beta and 90% of the time I fly a Galleon. I put my long range on the left side, and usually I'm hardly moving at all. I KNOW HOW TO FLY.

 

Sorry, I get hostile when people assume I don't know what I'm doing.

[N-Sunderland]

Heck I had a Hwachafish park on our left, and we had double Hwachas but it turned out to be a ridiculously drawn out, disable-counter disable trade for 10 min straight until his ally showed up and killed us.

Hey. What did I just say? I've been playing since beta and 90% of the time I fly a Galleon. I put my long range on the left side, and usually I'm hardly moving at all. I KNOW HOW TO FLY.

 

Sorry, I get hostile when people assume I don't know what I'm doing.

No, he's pointing out how you contradicted yourself. Look at the underlined parts.

[Nidh]

Heck I had a Hwachafish park on our left, and we had double Hwachas but it turned out to be a ridiculously drawn out, disable-counter disable trade for 10 min straight until his ally showed up and killed us.

Hey. What did I just say? I've been playing since beta and 90% of the time I fly a Galleon. I put my long range on the left side, and usually I'm hardly moving at all. I KNOW HOW TO FLY.

 

Sorry, I get hostile when people assume I don't know what I'm doing.

No, he's pointing out how you contradicted yourself. Look at the underlined parts.

Oh, whoops, my mistake. Sorry, I meant the Hwachafish parked on our right.

[NikolaiLev]

Anyway, the people mentioning how the Heavy Flak is useless at close range are tragically incorrect.  Is it essentially a 50% decrease in DPS?  Yes.  It's only 50%.  It's still huge, and you have a much better hit rate.  Even with a Field Gun, you'll be able to do competent damage unless your piloting is off.

Phoenix Claw is vital here to keep your turn speed up.  If they try to circle, you can reverse rotation and bring your right side to bear, which should usually consist of close range weaponry; a carronade and a hwacha is an excellent combination, and makes you no slouch in close range scraps.

Let's not forget the Galleon is ridiculously hard to kill.  Provided sufficient engineering, you will stay in the air for a long time unless you're getting hit by three or more ships, or one of the two ships is a dual flak Galleon at range.  When you're being piled on by enemies, your teammate has a great opportunity to get in and fight for free.  One ship is seldom enough to kill a Galleon unless it's another Galleon with superior gunnery.

I feel heavy weapon balance (and thus, Galleon balance) is decent, because you have tradeoffs to make.  Dual heavy flak gives you the best explosive DPS in the game, but makes you sub-optimal close.  Putting a hwacha or carronade makes you sub-optimal at long range, but gives you versatility.  Doing all close range (carronades and hwachas) is difficult to pull off given your poor maneuverability.  And Lumberjacks... are just too weak to use on anything.