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The Everyone Think Really Hard And Make Rangefinder Useful Thread

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OverlordEgg:

--- Quote from: Maximillian Jazzhand on March 03, 2016, 10:01:20 pm ---no... the whole point of the range finder is to find the range....
Its a tool to give a player extra data to improve their shooting. Not act as a goddamn blatant cheat tool.


Your whole spiel about assuming people should hit every shot is asinine. You don't plan for the ideal situation because the enemy is actively trying to not set up the ideal situation for you.

Hence you have to think about the ease of use of guns. Hence you use a gatling over a hades vs a squid. Its easier to hit with many factors adding to it.

Hades can cause fire, has higher dps per clip (and can break faster if it the hits were greater). But all that is useless if can't hit because its an arcing weapon that needs more than just pointing the reticle at the ship.

You ever wonder why the hades has obviously better hull break ability than a gatling? Because you clearly haven't considered it. And how you're asserting your point when you clearly haven't shown said consideration, makes it galling for me to read your spiel to justify your cheat tool.

I mean yeah you can use a hades to hit a squid but it won't be as reliable to hit than a gatling. But if you could. The hades would indeed break that hull faster than a gat, but thats a big gamble. Its a BIG IF.

And if there's one thing I teach and is definitely demonstrated by the countering picking fights with vets. You don't plan around ifs. Scrubs plan around ifs and they fly dumb crap like double flak.

--- End quote ---

You say the rangefinder is a tool to find range, but that's pointless. It already does that, and that's clearly not enough. Anyone could open up their map to get a reasonably accurate estimate of distance.

You say it's a tool to give people data to improve their shooting, and that's exactly what I'm suggesting it do.

You call it a "cheat tool" because it helps gunners figure out how to shoot. If we assumed that the circle thing wasn't vague and inaccurate, that's exactly what it already does. Even more because it's supposed to tell people exactly how to lead.

You think it would imbalance the game because people would suddenly start landing their shots, and that's why I suggest it act like it already does and take up a pilot slot while requiring someone to stare at the target.

But clearly I didn't consider any of that. Honestly, I don't understand the aggression. I had an idea, people countered the idea, I defended the idea. So the cycle repeats. That's how intelligent debates work. Perhaps I'm wrong, perhaps I didn't properly word my arguments.  I'm not mad people disagree with me, but it's not like I'm just going to go "oh okay this Jazzhand guy is always right about everything. glad that idea's done for." I'm gonna try and defend my idea. If I'm reading too much into things then you can forget this whole paragraph, but trying to talk down on me saying things like I "clearly haven't considered it." Sounds like I hit a nerve somewhere. Did I offend you? I do sincerely apologize if I did because that was never my intention. That's an honest apology too. I know sarcasm or lack thereof can sometimes get misconstrued over the internet, but if I did actually hit a nerve I really am sorry. Or I'm thinking too much and this paragraph is pointless.

Omniraptor:
Rangefinder is useful for checking whether a ship is outside maximum range. Primarily for guns like artemis.  I really don't want to have optimal gameplay consist of literally staring at someone doing nothing. Spyglass is ok, you click on them and get back to doing fun stuff. Rangefinder you keep staring and doing nothing, how is that engaging at all?

Djinn's suggestion of bonus damage, I think it's a bad idea (no offense djinn) because it forces people to stare at an enemy, not fun gameplay in the least.
Same for OverlordEgg's idea of practice mode style lasers.. I would really hate to see a laser pointer style sight, or even more blatant a curved arc outline. It would take away 90% of of the fun of shooting stuff.

Whatever we do IMO it should involve clicking once and putting the rangefinder away, not keeping it out. Personally I like Geo's revised suggestion https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,7397.msg124783.html#msg124783

OverlordEgg:

--- Quote from: Omniraptor on March 04, 2016, 12:09:43 pm ---Rangefinder is useful for checking whether a ship is outside maximum range. Primarily for guns like artemis.  I really don't want to have optimal gameplay consist of literally staring at someone doing nothing. Spyglass is ok, you click on them and get back to doing fun stuff. Rangefinder you keep staring and doing nothing, how is that engaging at all?

--- End quote ---

Isn't that what sniping builds at the moment currently are? Staring at someone while your gunners snipe? I mean, sure, there's all sorts of tactical games involved for positioning and whatnot, but it's not like you can't do that with a range-finder. Might even be fun to watch your crew's shots fly in and hit the target from a thousand meters and up. Maybe it would even encourage  some more communication. Like "I'm gonna be zoomed in so let me know if we're being flanked."

I also never intended for this to be used on everything, just as a practice tool for certain guns that typically get no love because most gunners aren't MLG enough for most pilots to consider letting them try.

The Djinn:

--- Quote from: Omniraptor on March 04, 2016, 12:09:43 pm ---Djinn's suggestion of bonus damage, I think it's a bad idea (no offense djinn) because it forces people to stare at an enemy, not fun gameplay in the least.

--- End quote ---

No offense taken!

My goals wasn't to put a player in stand-by mode. If you're taking damage or have three guns on target it's always superior to heal or fire as necessary. The damage boost suggestion was aimed at times when your Pyramjdion is approaching the enemy's blind side, and only two guns can fire, or when your Flak/Lumber Galleon side is shooting. What's the last guy doing? Most likely checking buffs that are already up, or sitting idle.

Richard LeMoon:
Most likely standing on the spear.

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