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Make Gunners A Relevant Choice
Hoja Lateralus:
--- Quote from: UndeadViking on February 16, 2016, 01:53:43 pm ---Why not increasing the Efficiency of every class by making their Tools stronger. (...)
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It's against Muse's policy of "everyone is equal in what they are doing", which was perhaps tackled with stamina, but still alive in them.
Also, the examples for 2 gunner supremacy are false. Munker and Galleon usually work better with 2 engineers.
I think the problem is much bigger than this 10-20-orwhatever% of repair bonus. This is something that the whole game is based upon.
UndeadViking:
--- Quote ---Still not sold it to me. Engineers are needed for ship repairs, double gunner will always hold a disadvantage.
For example: pyramidion, lets assume you have two gunners, I will simply take a banshee and laugh manically knowing that the balloon will burn till dead and the main engineer will not be able to do a thing about it because of armour breaks, the two gunners will be unable to shoot as they'll be desperately struggling to repair the balloon.
A gunner buff will only result in double gunner trolls becoming a bigger issue than they already are, and a general buff to all classes would simply mean the standard two Engineers one gunner (not min max play of triple engineer) will stay the same.
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Well, more fire power means disabling guns faster. So, the enemy is unable to attack if you attack correctly, even with 2 engineers.
--- Quote ---It's against Muse's policy of "everyone is equal in what they are doing", which was perhaps tackled with stamina, but still alive in them.
Also, the examples for 2 gunner supremacy are false. Munker and Galleon usually work better with 2 engineers.
I think the problem is much bigger than this 10-20-orwhatever% of repair bonus. This is something that the whole game is based upon.
--- End quote ---
I never said that. Engineer only becomes stronger with engineer tools, gunenrwith bullets and so on. This makes more difference between classes. So and tehre comes in my idea of perks, which makes even more differences between the classes.
--- Quote ---There will be upgradeable skills in the upcoming Alliance mode. Perks will not be in Skirmish mode
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Ok, but that is PvE. So upgradeable skills arent a problem. Perks really would increase the differences of the classes. Still, it needs some time to balacne. The developers could begin with 3 for every class and increase it time after time.
BlackenedPies:
Perks would make experienced players more powerful. For each ship position there would be clear meta choices which perk to bring, and I bet there would be an overall meta perk. It'll give experienced players another advantage
The consensus is that gunners are balanced because they have their use. Sometimes engis are better than gunners because there's no reason for more ammos on simple guns that don't need extra arcs. Buffing gunners won't make them more viable without breaking balance on guns that gunners are used on. Double gunner cannot be viable without two engi tools. No matter how powerful they are a double gunner ship is easily countered by disable and fire. To make double gunner viable would break balance
Kamoba:
--- Quote from: BlackenedPies on February 20, 2016, 09:19:51 am ---Perks would make experienced players more powerful. For each ship position there would be clear meta choices which perk to bring, and I bet there would be an overall meta perk. It'll give experienced players another advantage
The consensus is that gunners are balanced because they have their use. Sometimes engis are better than gunners because there's no reason for more ammos on simple guns that don't need extra arcs. Buffing gunners won't make them more viable without breaking balance on guns that gunners are used on. Double gunner cannot be viable without two engi tools. No matter how powerful they are a double gunner ship is easily countered by disable and fire. To make double gunner viable would break balance
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Or require every ship be redesigned to allow one engineer to fix everything...
So I'm happy with gunners as they are and have been looking for more uses for them, with some success.
Kingsania:
A lot of interesting points in this discussion, but I think we're going about this the wrong way. The point of being a gunner is to keep the other guys' guns down so your engineers can fix the ship. With that in mind, they should be entirely focused on shooting. So instead of increasing gunner's repair speed on guns, simply increase rebuilt guns' starting health. Not back to full health, mind you, but enough so they can hop on right away to turn and shoot. The gunner would need to be the one to finish building the gun for this to apply. This wouldn't make gunner op as it doesn't apply in every combat scenario, but it makes them more viable under intense enemy fire.
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