I am begging, please add minimum level requirements to pilot...

[Ightrril]

When new players first start the game and hit "Play", unless they log out first, they are thrown into the basic tutorial which teaches the basics of engineering with spanner+mallet, shows the player around a Pyra, and gives some information on how ships actually die (using gat+flak as the example).

Locking any class behind matches or levels is unfair to new players (for reasons already mentioned) and almost certainly not going to happen.
Locking piloting out of novice is also one way but has its issues too (novice matches being very slow as mentioned by Blackened, also fairly often there are groups of new players playing with 1 more experienced friend who is out of novice but doesn't pilot themselves, that group could then have to be split).
Locking classes behind tutorials is probably the best option but it does add more time still before someone's first match (which already contains the matchmaking and lobby wait). If a group of new players are all playing with each other and a couple decide to change class then the others would be there waiting for this annoying compulsory tutorial to finish.

I think Muse want players, whether alone or playing with others, to be in matches having fun as soon as possible. It could be to give new players a good first impression of the game and encourage them to stick around, increasing the size of the playerbase. It is unfortunate that this can lead to matches being 'ruined' by a single pilot playing their first match but throwing people through more tutorials won't really solve that. If a player is going into their first matches with the mindset that they're playing "Shooting Airships of Icarus" or "Steampunk Flight of Icarus" instead of "Teamwork of Icarus" then that's going to affect how they play at the start.

In regards to guns not being used properly, on-screen tutorial text that appears the first time a player mounts the gun that explains what the gun does and is good against could be the solution. Repair cooldown should be covered in the basic tutorial (I'm not certain if it is or not).

[Lu Lu]

So, I thought maybe before we proceed with the discussion, that a tally might be in order to see where everyone stands.

http://strawpoll.me/6540123

This may not be absolutely necessary, but I feel as though if we knew how many people thought what, it would give a better gauge on the issue at hand.

Please everyone, lets vote!  Though Muse probably won't change a thing, it'll be nice to see where we, the players, stand.

[DJ Logicalia]

That's not the main issue, though. The problem is that muse takes bloody ages to implement anything

Additionally, a couple pages back, I already stated that muse is actively working on an improved tutorial that they're going to make mandatory that will hopefully be in the next update.

[FranckM]

Any ideas when the next update going to be?

[spoonninja]

I wrote something super long but deleted it all. It was too long and sappy aha
Basically my long winded reply to Jedi was that if I was not taught by him and other players I would have never kept playing guns. I also wouldn't have been such a good pilot at a lower level unless I played engineer and gunner first. I believe having a level cap on Pilot would be beneficial to vets and novices. Learning what engineers are capable of and the arcs for guns is very integral for captaining that a lot of novices just never learn until later

[BlackenedPies]

Engineering is the most important part of captaining. It tells you when you can engage, when to disengage, and the limits of you and your opponent's crews

[Squidslinger Gilder]

Always think of this when thinking about doing any kind of noob training...

https://youtu.be/-mcUPY0RMdU

[Arturo Sanchez]

Always think of this when thinking about doing any kind of noob training...

https://youtu.be/-mcUPY0RMdU

no



this forever.

[Atruejedi]

Sigh.

Yes, yes, Atruejed is back to whine again in public. It's cathartic. I've stuck with this game for years, loss after loss, frustration after frustration, humiliation after humiliation. It's my lot in life. It's my cross to bear. Bitching is the only thing that prevents me from forsaking this game for eternity. Tonight, I'd like to explore the Catch 22 of Guns of Icarus Online player retention.

Tonight, in a lobby which was stacked (purposely at times...) over and over again, I realized this stacking issue wouldn't be a problem if the community were bigger. I could just leave and find another match. But there were a mere 120 or so players online. I expressed my frustration with the situation. Another player said Muse cares more about Alliance because it will serve as a tutorial and will grow skirmish mode. I completely disagree with that notion. I think that's backwards. Alliance shouldn't grow skirmish. Skirmish should grow Alliance!

This game is wonderful (if not perfect, but that's okay!), but no one plays it, or keeps playing it. I have a Steam friends list of 218 people. Most of them are from Team Fortress 2. Yet 85 of them own Guns of Icarus Online. I've only added a HANDFUL of GOI players to my Steam friends list because of the awesome integrated GOI friends list. Maybe 15, tops. And YET!... a shit-ton of players own the game. Why don't they play it? Why do they try it once and quit, never to return? As I've already expressed, they quit because they have a bad time on their initial day and give up after getting stomped repeatedly. Their game losses are our community losses.

I've already expressed how I believe this situation should be addressed and fixed. Many of you weighted in... but Muse has said nothing, except more/better tutorials are coming. Shouldn't new/better tutorials be their TOP PRIORITY? Shouldn't growing their skirmish mode player base be paramount to the success of Alliance!? Am I crazy!? I know, I know, I've contemplated leaving the community before (and did for seven months in 2015)... but, again, I'm about to reach my tipping point. I sacrifice my own personal enjoyment/win-loss-ratio so new players can get a decent experience, but I'm (sadly) one of the few. I contributed to the GOI Steam Workshop, yet never gotten any feedback from the developers after four months. I'm so near giving up on this game. If Muse doesn't care, why should I? That's how it seems. But I don't want to give up. I'm inherently hopeful. And I remember "the good ol' days."

At this point, I just want Muse to... say something. To say anything. To reassure me they care about skirmish. To understand their priorities. Please tell me I'm not the only old-timey player who is EXTREMELY frustrated at this point... can we form a support group?

[Arturo Sanchez]

skirmish should grow alliance...


you mean that baby mode for babies that easily destroyed by any middle tier vet on the highest difficulty? Skirmish should ready people... to play baby mode...

[Lu Lu]

Your not alone Jedi, It's really frustrating to see the errors and mistakes in the game go on unchecked without fixes.  I remember spectating a match, a 2 versus 2, where the highest level player on red team was 15, and the lowest level on blue was in the mid 30's.  It was an absolutely painful match to watch (i was giving commentary) and it made me realize something.  Regardless of how hard the newer players on red can try to win and learn, they cannot in any way hope to manage to counter the sheer experience gap.  The biggest problem with this game is the skill curve required for newer players to be successful.  Rather than trying to balance matches ourselves, we as a community, apparently relish in destroying newer players.  And we wonder why our player base is shrinking.  If we refuse to face reality and accept that as a community we must change, then i cannot see this game retaining a large enough player base to remain a fun game. It longer is enough for the occasional player or two to try to help newer players, we must as a whole try to balance out the game, or else, there may come a point in which there no longer is a game to be played.
Just my thoughts.

[Solidusbucket]

Most games offer a single player that should be played first before multiplayer.

Single player gives people the chance to understand the basic mechanics and physics of the game.

I got wrecked when I first played this game. Over and over and over. But, I stuck to it and improved. It is a game with a steep learning curve, minimal reward incentive, and of competitive nature.

I constantly request to swap ships. I try to give advice. The majority of the time it does not work. Some people want to learn. Most people just want to go pew pew or fly.

Of course, I was in a phase before this game where I was playing DCS World consistently. I understood the pains and agonies of learning from mistakes and improving at a slow rate. Hell, I spent more time reading and analyzing than actually playing. I spent a great deal of time in single player mode after being slaughtered one too many times online. I learned the mechanics and physics. Then, when I went back online I was much better though I still had to learn tactics.

My point is, this game needs a single player so people can comfortably ease into getting their shit handed to them. It is a game that requires tactical knowledge, good reaction times, teamwork, and understanding of mechanics. All of this can be learned through single player / co-op and honed, adjusted, and advanced through versus mode.

[Atruejedi]

The game is on sale this weekend, so we'll be seeing a player bump for a few days. Does Muse have any plans to actually retain any of these novices? It's a revolving door... it honestly blows my mind they have developed no retention strategy.

[HamsterIV]

We won't retain them, we can't. Guns of Icarus is like fencing. Outsiders can romanticize about the game based of a false idea of what it should be, but after being exposed to the reality most quit. Only a few people who try will stick with it long enough to get any good or develop a real understanding of the game. The rest will go back to something comfortable and familiar like football and Call of Duty.

[Solidusbucket]

I feel like the real issue is there is no way to learn how to play properly.

No one wants to watch a tutorial. However, people will play against A.I without much grievance.

Script A.I to be able to fly. Introduce reward incentives for playing with bots. Done.