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[Thomas]

Ayetach is a well known Ryder player. He was a Ryder before he started helping Muse, and he's still a Ryder while helping Muse. This is common knowledge.

Had I asked for teams to contribute a roster after signing up, what happens to teams that don't submit a roster? Not to mention the added confusion of double posts and players asking for clarification of if they should add subs to their list. It would have just made a larger mess and not clarified anything.

I am more than happy to post information as it becomes available. I will also reach out to team contacts as I can and when I can, but only when it is necessary. If a team contact chooses to forfeit their team, I have no reason to go to each individual player of the team to validate their decision, nor did I have the time to do so. We needed a solution to a problem, it was presented and accepted. The event went off well.

[DoubleMDownie]

After day one: Hate the 3 min timer in lobbies it should be 6 mins and a 20 min match timer ugh god terrible!

[MightyKeb]

After day one: Hate the 3 min timer in lobbies it should be 6 mins and a 20 min match timer ugh god terrible!

6 would be way too long when, in my experience, 4-5 works just fine on events like SCS.

[Thomas]

We can reduce the match time to 15 or so. I like to keep lobby time short. It may be easier on teams in these upcoming weeks as they'll know their team mate well ahead of time. If you feel your team needs more time in the lobby, you can use your pause time to extend it. The rules have also been adjusted if you feel the need to give up points for more lobby time.

[Atruejedi]

After day one: Hate the 3 min timer in lobbies it should be 6 mins and a 20 min match timer ugh god terrible!

Three minutes is WAY too little to actually strategize and think. Did anyone see PANIC's third match on Clash at Blackcliff? Our ally advised us to take a long range side on our Galleon and I obliged him in the name of teamwork, even though it's definitely not my typical play style. I usually have a heavy carronade and a hwatcha on each side, but when the referee announced we had FIVE SECONDS before the match began, I opened up the ship loadout and accidentally replaced the hwatcha with a lumberjack instead of replacing the carronade  . I was hoping we'd win and it would be the new meta ("Pop a balloon at any range!") but that didn't work out  . And the 20 minute match limit isn't any fun. It doesn't encourage strategy, it encourages recklessness. Making it even shorter would be WORSE

But anyway, my motley crew of rag-tag rogues enjoyed today immensely and look forward to fighting again next week 

I do have a question, though. Can someone explain the rational behind how the point system works? I understand HOW it works, just not WHY it works that way. My crew won two of the three matches and it makes me sad we "only" have 1080 points. Not that any of us care, honestly, we were just happy to be participating! Shout out to Areus for the peer pressure to sign up 

[DoubleMDownie]

3 Mins is WAY TO short! and 20 mins is not long enough. #annoyed-af I want to actually be able to take my time to win not be forced by some timer. so stupid

[Thomas]

So week 1 points are going to be messy, there's no denying that. It's purpose is to start creating point differences, which it has done. The problem with the week 1 points is that the matches were relatively random. You might go against a team with 2000 combined points or 22000 combined points; and that makes a difference in what you can win.

From weeks 2-9, we'll be pairing teams in a high-low system.This will help create teams that have relatively the same amount of points. So you might have a team made of ships with 1000 points each (2000 total) or a team with 1300 and 700 points (2000 total). It's unlikely to be nearly that clean, but you won't end up in matches with a huge difference in combined points.

It may be adjusted at the first break to scale points for winning/losing to the point difference. For instance, if we do get teams that have a combined score much higher than anyone else, we may make it so that they can win less points, but are worth more points when defeated. We'll have to get more opinions on that.


Points are bound to change a lot as time goes on. They should start to stabilize near the end of the League. You don't have to be the number 1 team to win, but you do need to be top 4 to have a chance at it.



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As far as time goes, I can agree on the lobby time. It is short, but we don't want people forced to play GoIO for hours on end. Most tournaments have a lobby timer of around 3-5 minutes. This is because of past tournaments that had lobby time nearly as long than the matches themselves.

As for match time, nearly all of our matches finished well before even the 15 minute mark. Very few people enjoy a long drawn out sniping match where nothing interesting is happening. And again, we don't want people playing GoIO forever. Once more we look to past matches that have lasted ridiculously long periods of time and wasn't fun for anyone involved or watching.

[Atruejedi]

So week 1 points are going to be messy, there's no denying that. It's purpose is to start creating point differences, which it has done. The problem with the week 1 points is that the matches were relatively random. You might go against a team with 2000 combined points or 22000 combined points; and that makes a difference in what you can win.

From weeks 2-9, we'll be pairing teams in a high-low system.This will help create teams that have relatively the same amount of points. So you might have a team made of ships with 1000 points each (2000 total) or a team with 1300 and 700 points (2000 total). It's unlikely to be nearly that clean, but you won't end up in matches with a huge difference in combined points.

It may be adjusted at the first break to scale points for winning/losing to the point difference. For instance, if we do get teams that have a combined score much higher than anyone else, we may make it so that they can win less points, but are worth more points when defeated. We'll have to get more opinions on that.

But... why this system? Where did it come from? Why is it used? Has it been used before? That was my question I feel a great disturbance in the force when I think of how this system might implode later... but this is my first tourney in any game, ever, so... you probably know better than me!

As far as time goes, I can agree on the lobby time. It is short, but we don't want people forced to play GoIO for hours on end. Most tournaments have a lobby timer of around 3-5 minutes. This is because of past tournaments that had lobby time nearly as long than the matches themselves.

As for match time, nearly all of our matches finished well before even the 15 minute mark. Very few people enjoy a long drawn out sniping match where nothing interesting is happening. And again, we don't want people playing GoIO forever. Once more we look to past matches that have lasted ridiculously long periods of time and wasn't fun for anyone involved or watching.

I don't know, man. Changing the three minute pre-game to five minutes would be a minor but significant change. And changing the match limit from 20 to 25 minutes would be a minor but significant change as well. Some of the absolute best games of GOI are long as hell, but they're the ones that are WORTH it. GOI isn't a race; it's a marathon.

[DoubleMDownie]

Anyone who knows anything about guns knows that a long match doesn't mean sniping only bullshit. Those long matches are always the best ones. As for your thought on lobbies being just as long as matches thats bullshit, If your are going to make it timed then that isnt a problem it takes several mins for teams to decide on builds and loadouts, I still say a 6 min timer is enough time but its also not too long. As for match time I agree with Jedi 25 mins would be a lot better. Rushing players through matches caushes good players to loose. I can attest to that for my second round should have been a win but we felt the pressure of a stupid timer. As for the subs rule I think its stupid you cant have a repeated sub player, what does it matter if I have the same sub two weeks in a row.

[Thomas]

This point system is similar to the MMR system. It comes from the concept that more skilled opponents are worth more points, and less skilled is worth less. So if you have a match of a champion player against a novice, if the champion wins, they don't get a lot of points. However, if the novice wins, they earn a lot more points. There's a lot of variations on this type of system and it's present in many multiplayer games in one fashion or another.

You can consider it the evolution of the Hephaestus League. In that system, teams earned points for wins, regardless of who it was against. You could beat 10 novices or 10 veterans and it's still the same points. We want a system that gives value to the teams and also acts as a balancing factor.

So along with more skilled teams earning more points (the more you win, the more skilled you show yourself to be) we balance it by pairing the skilled and less skilled. This, ideally, will lead to some balanced matches which are more enjoyable to play and watch.


It's kind of like what Veteran Matches and/or GoIO MMR should be in the right conditions.

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Timers come into play from experience. I've seen tournaments that lasted way too long because a match or two went over an hour each (Sniping is just the most common). There have been events where the lobby wasn't timed and matches took an incredible amount of time to start. Today we had 6 matches on each stream. With 3 minutes each, that's 24 minutes of just sitting in the lobby. Then there's the added time of creating the lobby and getting the majority of players into the lobby. More than a few matches went over the 3 minutes before starting. So it's likely to be over 30 minutes of not being in a match.

If we move it up to six minutes, you could be looking at over an hour of that. 3+ hours of GoIO ever weekend for 9 more weeks would be stressful on a lot of people.


That being said, we can increase the lobby time (not to mention the other ways of getting more lobby time). However, I can't justify increasing the match time regardless of how loose it makes you.


For subs, they can play on your team as long as they want. However, they can't play for a different team immediately. I have adjusted the wording in the rule to make this more clear. If you have a sub for Team A, they can keep playing for Team A. If they want to play for Team B, they have to wait 3 weeks. I hope this makes sense.

[Atruejedi]

This point system is similar to the MMR system. It comes from the concept that more skilled opponents are worth more points, and less skilled is worth less. So if you have a match of a champion player against a novice, if the champion wins, they don't get a lot of points. However, if the novice wins, they earn a lot more points. There's a lot of variations on this type of system and it's present in many multiplayer games in one fashion or another.

You can consider it the evolution of the Hephaestus League. In that system, teams earned points for wins, regardless of who it was against. You could beat 10 novices or 10 veterans and it's still the same points. We want a system that gives value to the teams and also acts as a balancing factor.

So along with more skilled teams earning more points (the more you win, the more skilled you show yourself to be) we balance it by pairing the skilled and less skilled. This, ideally, will lead to some balanced matches which are more enjoyable to play and watch.


It's kind of like what Veteran Matches and/or GoIO MMR should be in the right conditions.

I'm satisfied with the explanation now. Makes sense. Thanks for indulging me!

As for match time I agree with Jedi 25 mins would be a lot better. Rushing players through matches caushes good players to loose.

However, I can't justify increasing the match time regardless of how loose it makes you.

I disagree completely, but lololol

[Sliced And Diced]

The reason why we have 3 mins as lobby and the game timer is set at 20 mins. is because we have only have a certain amount of referees and casters!!! making the time limit long would drag on the event for 4 hours.  WE DONT HAVE THE MAN POWER TO DO THIS,THeCASTERS AND REFEREE cant GIVE up too much time.  HAVE A HEART YOU ASSHOLES AND SUCK IT UP!!!!! YOU GUYS BARELY PLAY COMPETITIVE ANYWAY!!!. okay my rant is done

[FreyjaNorsk]

I wanted to thank Thomas for putting in time and effort and making an event that is new yet evolved from things we have learned about competitive.

The 3 minute timer is amazing! How refreshing to be in a lobby and in game in UNDER 5 mins, omg nothing but love for this. If you need to go back and forth with a load out, you've already lost. You should know what your teams weakness and strengths are and play off those not play lobby counter. Even with the new partner each match this week, 3 mins was enough. And for the following weeks, if I understand correctly, we only have 1 partner for the whole week so it'll be even easier to figure out load outs in 3 mins.

The reason why we have 3 mins as lobby and the game timer is set at 20 mins. is because we have only have a certain amount of referees and casters!!! making the time limit long would drag on the event for 4 hours.  WE DONT HAVE THE MAN POWER TO DO THIS,THeCASTERS AND REFEREE cant GIVE up too much time.  HAVE A HEART YOU ASSHOLES AND SUCK IT UP!!!!! YOU GUYS BARELY PLAY COMPETITIVE ANYWAY!!!. okay my rant is done

+1 stop taking everyone that's involved in organizing and running an event for granted. They work hard to give us competitive or we wouldn't have any competitive at all.

Like, Ayetach, I thought this was amazing fun today!

[DrTentacles]

I hate counterpicking. Hate it with a passion. Worst part of Guns. 3 minutes in lobby are plenty. The only exception is technical problems, which is accounted for under the pause system. You can pause in lobby, BTW. Or talk to your partner before the lobby. I'd argue for blind lobbies, but people love their meta-games. What may help is if team matchups went out earlier-Thursday at latest, so you could decide a general plan there.

Sniping is also terrible. Twenty minutes is plenty. It gives pressure to actually make a plan, and take action, rather than try to wrangle for painful, incremental advantage. Especially given the number of casters we have, and number of teams and matches we have.  Sometimes the odds are not in your favor. Adapt, and come up with a new play. I got screwed over by a pause today that probably wasn't technically legal. It happens. We are not DOTA. Thank god for that. Make competitive events easier, not harder. It's no wonder no one wants to put in the effort giving the waves of complaints I see every single event.

[DJ Logicalia]

I came away with a positive impression of day one. It was kinda messy, but that seems to be unavoidable. The one thing I'd ask is maybe an additional streamer so we don't end up waiting an hour between matches like my team's 2 and 3rd matches were.

Good work, regardless, looking forward to the rest of it o7