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(http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h49/Mu-Shu-Fasa/Cronus%20League_zps9wndbqzs.png)
Introduction
Official Ruleset:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/19_Zpqhe3qrwz1t5Rmxe4depJl8a0VBsP4A2eNMB98HA/edit
The Cronus League is upon us! Or will be after these Holidays..
For the quick-ish and dirty version of this event, follow this link to the thread:
https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,6952.0.html
For the quicker and dirtier version:
Cronus League is 10 week event for teams to compete and prove themselves the best of the best in GoIO. Teams will be composed of only FOUR players as opposed to the usual eight. This requires that teams be partnered up into 'pairs' for the length of the league. In weeks 2-9 teams will be assigned in a high-low system based upon their score. There will be a bye week for weeks 4-5 where half the teams will not compete in week 4, and the other half will not compete in week 5. Week 10 is finals and teams will be put into a double round robin. Only one team will come in first place. Week 1 will have a combination of picking your partner and randomly assigned pairs.
Sign Ups
To sign up, leave a post with your team name. Remember, during the tournament your in-game ship name MUST be your team name. This is for making life easier on refs, casters, organizers, and everyone watching the tournament.
To sign up, you MUST have four players. Subs are allowed, refer to the ruleset for more information. You do not have to list your entire line-up.
Teams that signup first get some advantages, refer to the ruleset.
Week 1
As mentioned everywhere, week 1 will operate differently than other weeks. Signups will close on Jan 6th. Teams will then have two days to start picking out their partner for the first matches on the ninth. Once signups close, we will open this thread up to picking partners. Teams may pick partners immediately and in any order, just post in this thread on/after the sixth. Teams that signed up first will get priority on choosing their partners. If some other team chooses the partner you wanted and posted choosing, and that other team signed up before you, you'll have to pick again. Just put a new post up. You may not change your pick unless another team (which has priority over you) picks the team you posted for.
We will be keeping a spreadsheet up to date with the current pairings for week 1.
Teams will be paired for the first match. Teams that did not pick a partner will be randomly paired. After the first match, all teams will be randomly paired.
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Hastatii signing up.
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The Cake Bakers signing up!
Contact: Admiral Obvious
Our logo:
http://imgur.com/qFdiXnx
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501st Ryder Legion signing up. Contact: xedeon
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(http://i.imgur.com/DO7Cmrk.png)
Signing Up.
Contact: MightyKeb, Newbluud
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The Skyborne signing up!
Contacts: Sundstrom, Dmitrij K. Rozhkov
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(http://i.imgur.com/if7r56C.png)
Signing up!
POC: Nietzsche's Mustache
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Sounds like a good time.
The Grim Reapers are in!
(http://s1.postimg.org/q4x17p25r/2_ABE98_A04_FCC359_F9_E688_AF683_AA6854_A2_BE6_F8_AA20_B4_F2.png)
Contact: Grimick
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(http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s611/exosusareus/Ourorboros%20Ryders%20Trans_zpszlo2wexp.png)
Signing up
Contact Areus
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Ergo Victoriam Signing Up!
Contact: Guagadu
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A Fine Night's Curse, signing up!
Contact: The Cunning Linquist
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The Bards will be making an appearance!
(http://i.imgur.com/yivbrYs.png)
contact is Logicalia
I'm excepting 2 more bard ships to be signing up separately from me :D
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TUNA.CONFIRMED-TOXIC signing up.
Contact - HelFyre
(I'm so sorry)
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Drat this totally slipped my mind over the holidays. Well I've been busy off and on around the time slot so probably better I don't try to scramble something up at the last minute. Wish you all the best Thomas!
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Green Sun Rising reporting in.
Contacts: DrTentacles, Rorin
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PANIC Team.
I just realized I have 5 minutes to sign up. SIGNING UP NOW!
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Am I late?
If not
Bard Ship 2 Signing Up! (Sorry for the lateness logic... :S)
(http://puu.sh/mlBl4/64191ae294.jpg)
Contacts: The Mann & Hypnopotamus Rex
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(http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h49/Mu-Shu-Fasa/Vintage%20gilded%20gold%20fancy%20frame%20free%20printable%201_zpsatgznqik.png)
Team Bumble signing up!
Contact: Ayetach
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501st Ryder Legion signing up. Contact: xedeon
We'll take the 501st as first-round partner, if they'll have us.
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Bard Ship 2 would like to collaborate with Cake Bakers if they would like.
:)
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Pastry Timepiece signing up
Contact Ightril
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Also the Mann We shall chat this evening.m
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(http://i.imgur.com/DO7Cmrk.png)
Signing Up.
Contact: MightyKeb, Newbluud
Requesting pair-up for first week :)
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We would like to pair with the Skyborne for the first week.
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https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Wbh1ATjh3L_ddCPECpgHHoajWfmxjHj3JDoPiMSUXnU/edit?usp=sharing
Link to the current list of teams and who they've picked! The [ x ] by the team marks who did the picking. Remember that teams that signed up earlier get priority.
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People can keep signing up if they want. We currently have 17 teams. However, only divisions of 4 will be able to enter the tournament (12, 16, 20, 24, etc). If we don't hit 20 teams prior to the end of the day on Friday, we'll have to bump some teams.
Glad to see that teams are already picking partners, things are well underway. Remember that teams that sign-up first get priority pick, and the other team doesn't have to agree with them. For Example:
Signed up Team
1 A
2 B
3 C
4 D
If team C posts first to partner with A, but Team A decides to go with Team D; then Team A and D will be pair, even if Team D wants to be with Team B.
In a similar scenario, if Team C picks team A, but then Team B picks Team A, it's going to be Team B and Team A together; unless Team A chooses a different team.
You can't change who you pick as a partner until they're no longer available.
Good luck everyone!
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Hastatii picking Team Predators to partner up with the first match.
Edit: Sorry Ayetach ;)
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The Bards will be making an appearance!
(http://i.imgur.com/yivbrYs.png)
contact is Logicalia
I'm excepting 2 more bard ships to be signing up separately from me :D
Ergo Victoriam would like to request The Bards for week one partner.
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Hastatii picking Team Predators to partner up with the first match.
Edit: Sorry Ayetach ;)
No worries!
In that case...
(http://i.imgur.com/if7r56C.png)
Signing up!
POC: Nietzsche's Mustache
TUNA.CONFIRMED-TOXIC signing up.
Contact - HelFyre
(I'm so sorry)
If either of you two are interested in a pair up, contact me and we'll discuss details, thanks!
Finally for some clarification:
You can't change who you pick as a partner until they're no longer available.
Good luck everyone!
Did you mean can change?
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I did not mean 'can'. Once you pick a partner, you cannot change your mind. (Unless they are no longer available).
Perfect example is Team Bumble picking Team Predators for their partner. Once that was posted you could not pick another team and change your mind. However, once Hastatii chose Team Predators, they took priority (signed up earlier) and that is now their partner. They can't change their mind after this. But Team Bumble is allowed to pick again, since the partner they wanted is no longer available.
Right now I'd consider Team Bumble as picking Kajiggrs as a partner, since that was posted first. Which means you wouldn't be able to pick TUNA.CONFIRMED-TOXIC.
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Thank you for the clarification and assistance on this Thomas!
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Alpha Mike Foxtrot signing up!
Contact: -DARK-KNIGHT-
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The 501st chooses TUNA.CONFIRMED-TOXIC as its partner.
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(http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h49/Mu-Shu-Fasa/Vintage%20gilded%20gold%20fancy%20frame%20free%20printable%201_zpsatgznqik.png)
Team Bumble signing up!
Contact: Ayetach
Ouroboros Riders stealing Team Bumble since we lost the 501st.
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(http://i67.tinypic.com/znn62c.jpg)
I felt like we needed a graphic as well.
So matches begin tomorrow at 2 PM EST. When do my crew and I play? With whom are we playing? Against whom are we playing? I feel out of the loop and need to get this info to my peeps!
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Dido to Jedi
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Changes to team VSS PastryPrize:
We are now known as
Pastry Timepiece
(http://i.imgur.com/mGUQWWC.png)
Logo by Portable Grump, author of "The Ghost of Pastries Past"
Contact is Ightrril (http://steamcommunity.com/id/ightrril).
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(http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h49/Mu-Shu-Fasa/Vintage%20gilded%20gold%20fancy%20frame%20free%20printable%201_zpsatgznqik.png)
Team Bumble signing up!
Contact: Ayetach
Ouroboros Riders stealing Team Bumble since we lost the 501st.
Nope. Kajiggrs have first claim. Bumble is ours.
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Sign-ups are closed!-ish
Currently we have 18 teams signed up, which means we have to drop 2 teams, or get 2 teams signed up in the very last minutes to bring us up to 20.
If we have to drop teams, we will be dropping Team Bumble and Alpha Mike Foxtrot. Team Bumble would be removed due to being the 3rd Ryder ship and we want to promote diversity in the tournament. Then Alpha Mike Foxtrot would be the next team removed for signing up last. If we get two more teams to sign up, we'll refrain from removing Team Bumble and Alpha Mike Foxtrot.
Teams and Maps will be posted shortly.
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Week 1 matches are up! (Refs will be assigned before the matches). Teams shouldn't have the same team mate for any of the matches, if you see any team pairing up more than once (or any other mistake) let me know immediately!
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Wbh1ATjh3L_ddCPECpgHHoajWfmxjHj3JDoPiMSUXnU/edit?usp=sharing
(Click on the week 1 tab at the bottom)
Starting week 2 teams will have the same partner for the whole day and will be assigned in the High-Low system.
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Green Sun Rising appears in round 3 twice, Pastry Timepiece doesn't appear in round 3 at all. It looks like it ought to be Pastry Timepiece allied with Cake Bakers and Green Sun Rising with the Kajiggrs.
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Thanks for pointing that out~
I felt there was something wrong, but I couldn't quite find it. Dx
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Sorry for late sign-up. please let us participate <3
Ship - No Hug Me I'm Scared
Contact - bComplete//pwni
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One more team and we'll have 20!
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Sign-ups are closed!-ish
Currently we have 18 teams signed up, which means we have to drop 2 teams, or get 2 teams signed up in the very last minutes to bring us up to 20.
If we have to drop teams, we will be dropping Team Bumble and Alpha Mike Foxtrot. Team Bumble would be removed due to being the 3rd Ryder ship and we want to promote diversity in the tournament. Then Alpha Mike Foxtrot would be the next team removed for signing up last. If we get two more teams to sign up, we'll refrain from removing Team Bumble and Alpha Mike Foxtrot.
Teams and Maps will be posted shortly.
Just to clarify Thomas, I'm signing up on my own behalf (as an independent), not for any clan. Diva Mea is officially the only person on my ship with a Ryder tag, and the other two are not. So for the record we're not a 'third Ryder ship' :) But we're ready to hop in if there is 20 teams (fingers crossed!)
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Since it's only 4 players, it might not be fair to treat any signup as representative of any clan. Also, good luck to everyone!
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It was listed in the rules to limit players from each clan. This is to promote diversity in the teams as well as reduce the chances of 'foul play'. It was worded with regards to players, but when creating the sign up it slipped my mind. I generally dislike having players feel the need to list out their entire team, and when I realized my mistake it was too late to fix it, teams were already signing up. This required me to assume that each ship is 100% from the clan signing up (as most are) unless stated otherwise in the sign up.
If a 20th team signs up in the next couple hours, we'll do our best to adjust the schedule last minute and fit everyone in regardless.
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Thank you Thomas for the clarification.
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This required me to assume that each ship is 100% from the clan signing up (as most are) unless stated otherwise in the sign up.
Really? You could have made a post stating this before.
Well, I'd rather forfeit our team's spot than have Ayetach's out, if it comes to it.
Also, adding Gene sis to our contacts.
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ALTO's Bustin in on ya!! were singing up, contact SteamBrains, Montesooir, or MythicalDonuts
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ALTO's Bustin in on ya!! were singing up, contact SteamBrains, Montesooir, or MythicalDonuts
Team Name?
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[SKIC] Unglorious Rastorz
signing up ! we were told you needed a crew so i mustered one as fast as i could !
can i get confirm ?
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I didn't realize TUNA was a Ryder ship, didn't recognize HelFyre. Although that makes things easier. TUNA will be removed, Team Bumble will be re-instated. We'll see if any of the late join teams can substitute for A Fine Nights Curse.
Team Bumble was going to sub for A Fine Nights Curse originally, but now that they can play on their own and we have extra teams it shouldn't be a problem.
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I apologize for the confusion and delays. We had to substitute for a ref and both streamers. Luckily we have Urz and Dementio streaming!
www.twitch.tv/urzy
www.twitch.tv/d_dementio/
Matches can be found here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Wbh1ATjh3L_ddCPECpgHHoajWfmxjHj3JDoPiMSUXnU/edit#gid=1774639831
in the 'week 1' tab
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Sorry for cutting it short, SteamBrains again with our team name, Altruistic Rhapsody (the followers of Grentism)
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IGNORE THE ALTRUISTIC RHAPSODY
ONE (team name is Saltro)
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I didn't realize TUNA was a Ryder ship, didn't recognize HelFyre. Although that makes things easier. TUNA will be removed, Team Bumble will be re-instated. We'll see if any of the late join teams can substitute for A Fine Nights Curse.
Team Bumble was going to sub for A Fine Nights Curse originally, but now that they can play on their own and we have extra teams it shouldn't be a problem.
It was not a ship of Rydrs even if it has a Ryder tag, it had Helfyre (Rydr), myself (Clan Clan), Herze, (Bard) and we still would have had room for one more Rydr since there's only one Rydr on Ayetach's ship. This isn't breaking the rules in any way? It's too late to fix it now I guess but can this be reviewed closely?
I'm lucky I was linked to this. We weren't even contacted and have been trying to figure out how to respond since I'm confused by the uncertainty and interpretation of the rules.
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HelFyre was the contact and said that he would rather his team forfeit than Team Bumble. Team Bumble let us know there was only 2 Ryders, TUNA was still believed to be a full Ryder ship and made no comment otherwise. We will be enforcing the clan limit strongly. Attempts to circumvent this will not be tolerated. (Changing clan tags, dropping from a clan temporarily, etc.)
We will try our best to make sure matches are fair and unbiased. This is why we have the clan limit rule in play. We will be as flexible as we can without voiding this rule. We will be severely penalizing teams for breaking or circumventing this rule. (Likely removing the team from the tournament. In extreme cases we will apply a point penalty to other clanned ships as necessary).
On another note, we will also be enforcing Team/Ship names. Point penalties will apply for not having a ship name that matches your team name. Teams will be allowed to change their team name for week 2.
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The problem definitely lies in that the exact number of people from the clan were not asked for and assumed. While I didn't understand the clan rules necessity we were not intending to break the rules in any way so we made sure to stay under the limit. It would be silly to try to break them and submit too many members from the clan only to be removed.
This kind of ruined it for our crew and the people who were promised to play. The forfeit didn't seem necessary when we're looking at the facts that Ayetach mentioned only having one Rydr. Helfyre also mentioned me as a contact in his most recent post and I wish you would have contacted me and we could have discussed/confirmed any removal.
The lack of communication in that regard is definitely to blame which is an extreme disappointment. I know Cronus was something we were all looking forward to and this could have easily been avoided.
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I'm sorry that a Community Ambassador feels the need to be so aggressively disappointed.
This entire event could have been easily avoided had I included that sign ups required a list of members. Past experience has reminded me how impractical this is, and I was not thinking of that particular rule while writing the sign up post. This did not happen, and so we had to play with the hand we were dealt.
When made aware of this discrepancy, I chose to stand by the rule as best as able while still being flexible. It is common for teams to be composed of people from the same clan. We can see that in this tournament, the majority of the teams were composed of players from the same clan. When 501 signed up, we were under the impression there was 4 Ryders. Then Ouroborus signed up, taking us to 8 Ryders. TUNA signed up, but this was not immediately identified as a Ryder ship. Team Bumble signed up, and this was known to be a Ryder ship, taking the total to 12 Ryders, beyond the limit.
When extra teams signed up, we had to decide which teams would not be able to participate this week. This is when we employed the rule to remove Team Bumble, as they were believed to push the limit past 10 clan members. Ayetach is a Ryder. This was posted as soon as it was able so teams would have time to respond and plan for the weekend. There was also a provision to allow them to participate if we came up to 20 teams.
There was no responses until early this morning about debating the decision. Again we mentioned that it may be possible if teams were available.
We also needed to come up with a substitute for 'A Fine Nights Curse' who was not able to play but did sign up. Team Bumble was approached and agreed to this. After this point, with encouragement from clan Ryder, other teams signed up in the couple hours leading up to the event, as well as HelFyre offering to forfeit the position for Team Bumble to play. This seemed an ideal solution and was put into play. This was posted on the forum for anyone to read. If you did not choose to stay up to date on the forum with everything that was happening, there's nothing I can do about it.
With Team Bumble back in play, we had to contact the extra sign ups for a potential replacement for A Fine Nights Curse. Of the 4 teams, only the latest team was online to respond (30 minutes before the event started). Since the other teams weren't available despite having just signed up, and with so many changes occurring, we decided to not to attempt to alter the bracket immediately before match time. So these teams were put on standby until next week.
During all of this, we had larger problems to deal with. Neither of our main casters showed up today (1 had a good excuse, the other just didn't show). We managed to get 1 caster to sub and could not find another. I was in the process of setting up to stream (Getting the program, setting it up, checking if everything works, etc). Luckily Urz signed on and was willing to stream the event, even though he had his own things going on (Give a big thanks to both Dementio and Urz). We were also missing a ref and were not able to find a replacement, requiring me to ref the matches as well as try to keep track of scores and communicate with teams.
We encourage you to re-sign up your team to potentially get in for week 2. Team leaders (points of contact) are encouraged to discuss among themselves before making big decisions (such as forfeiting their team).
Again, we will be enforcing rules more strictly for weeks 2-10 so this does not happen.
For a first single ship tournament with mostly random partners and all the problems we faced, this actually went quite well. The following weeks will definitely be a lot smoother.
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Team Bumble signed up, and this was known to be a Ryder ship. Ayetach is a Ryder.
(http://i.imgur.com/JIKDPUF.jpg)
So a guy marked with [Muse] tag signs in with a ship called Team Bumble and is believed to be a rydr as the rest of his crew...
I don't want to get into how stupid I find the "diversity" rule. I'm just sorry for Helfyre, Genesis and their crew for not being to participate.
I imagine listing crew can be impractical but when you impose a rule such as "max 10 people from the same clan" crew rosters seem like a needed thing. When you realized your mistake you should've spoken up and probably required rosters retroactively even though teams were already signing up. Also why would teams state they're not 100% from the same clan if they were not asked to?
I imagine all this last minute confusion was not easy to deal with, but the decisions of dropping certain teams seemed to me somewhat rushed, also with lack of communication with listed contacts of the ships for clarification.
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Ayetach is a well known Ryder player. He was a Ryder before he started helping Muse, and he's still a Ryder while helping Muse. This is common knowledge.
Had I asked for teams to contribute a roster after signing up, what happens to teams that don't submit a roster? Not to mention the added confusion of double posts and players asking for clarification of if they should add subs to their list. It would have just made a larger mess and not clarified anything.
I am more than happy to post information as it becomes available. I will also reach out to team contacts as I can and when I can, but only when it is necessary. If a team contact chooses to forfeit their team, I have no reason to go to each individual player of the team to validate their decision, nor did I have the time to do so. We needed a solution to a problem, it was presented and accepted. The event went off well.
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After day one: Hate the 3 min timer in lobbies it should be 6 mins and a 20 min match timer ugh god terrible!
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After day one: Hate the 3 min timer in lobbies it should be 6 mins and a 20 min match timer ugh god terrible!
6 would be way too long when, in my experience, 4-5 works just fine on events like SCS.
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We can reduce the match time to 15 or so. I like to keep lobby time short. It may be easier on teams in these upcoming weeks as they'll know their team mate well ahead of time. If you feel your team needs more time in the lobby, you can use your pause time to extend it. The rules have also been adjusted if you feel the need to give up points for more lobby time.
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After day one: Hate the 3 min timer in lobbies it should be 6 mins and a 20 min match timer ugh god terrible!
Three minutes is WAY too little to actually strategize and think. Did anyone see PANIC's third match on Clash at Blackcliff? Our ally advised us to take a long range side on our Galleon and I obliged him in the name of teamwork, even though it's definitely not my typical play style. I usually have a heavy carronade and a hwatcha on each side, but when the referee announced we had FIVE SECONDS before the match began, I opened up the ship loadout and accidentally replaced the hwatcha with a lumberjack instead of replacing the carronade :-\ . I was hoping we'd win and it would be the new meta ("Pop a balloon at any range!") but that didn't work out :D . And the 20 minute match limit isn't any fun. It doesn't encourage strategy, it encourages recklessness. Making it even shorter would be WORSE :(
But anyway, my motley crew of rag-tag rogues enjoyed today immensely and look forward to fighting again next week 8)
I do have a question, though. Can someone explain the rational behind how the point system works? I understand HOW it works, just not WHY it works that way. My crew won two of the three matches and it makes me sad we "only" have 1080 points. Not that any of us care, honestly, we were just happy to be participating! Shout out to Areus for the peer pressure to sign up :)
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3 Mins is WAY TO short! and 20 mins is not long enough. #annoyed-af I want to actually be able to take my time to win not be forced by some timer. so stupid
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So week 1 points are going to be messy, there's no denying that. It's purpose is to start creating point differences, which it has done. The problem with the week 1 points is that the matches were relatively random. You might go against a team with 2000 combined points or 22000 combined points; and that makes a difference in what you can win.
From weeks 2-9, we'll be pairing teams in a high-low system.This will help create teams that have relatively the same amount of points. So you might have a team made of ships with 1000 points each (2000 total) or a team with 1300 and 700 points (2000 total). It's unlikely to be nearly that clean, but you won't end up in matches with a huge difference in combined points.
It may be adjusted at the first break to scale points for winning/losing to the point difference. For instance, if we do get teams that have a combined score much higher than anyone else, we may make it so that they can win less points, but are worth more points when defeated. We'll have to get more opinions on that.
Points are bound to change a lot as time goes on. They should start to stabilize near the end of the League. You don't have to be the number 1 team to win, but you do need to be top 4 to have a chance at it.
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As far as time goes, I can agree on the lobby time. It is short, but we don't want people forced to play GoIO for hours on end. Most tournaments have a lobby timer of around 3-5 minutes. This is because of past tournaments that had lobby time nearly as long than the matches themselves.
As for match time, nearly all of our matches finished well before even the 15 minute mark. Very few people enjoy a long drawn out sniping match where nothing interesting is happening. And again, we don't want people playing GoIO forever. Once more we look to past matches that have lasted ridiculously long periods of time and wasn't fun for anyone involved or watching.
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So week 1 points are going to be messy, there's no denying that. It's purpose is to start creating point differences, which it has done. The problem with the week 1 points is that the matches were relatively random. You might go against a team with 2000 combined points or 22000 combined points; and that makes a difference in what you can win.
From weeks 2-9, we'll be pairing teams in a high-low system.This will help create teams that have relatively the same amount of points. So you might have a team made of ships with 1000 points each (2000 total) or a team with 1300 and 700 points (2000 total). It's unlikely to be nearly that clean, but you won't end up in matches with a huge difference in combined points.
It may be adjusted at the first break to scale points for winning/losing to the point difference. For instance, if we do get teams that have a combined score much higher than anyone else, we may make it so that they can win less points, but are worth more points when defeated. We'll have to get more opinions on that.
But... why this system? Where did it come from? Why is it used? Has it been used before? That was my question ;D I feel a great disturbance in the force when I think of how this system might implode later... but this is my first tourney in any game, ever, so... you probably know better than me!
As far as time goes, I can agree on the lobby time. It is short, but we don't want people forced to play GoIO for hours on end. Most tournaments have a lobby timer of around 3-5 minutes. This is because of past tournaments that had lobby time nearly as long than the matches themselves.
As for match time, nearly all of our matches finished well before even the 15 minute mark. Very few people enjoy a long drawn out sniping match where nothing interesting is happening. And again, we don't want people playing GoIO forever. Once more we look to past matches that have lasted ridiculously long periods of time and wasn't fun for anyone involved or watching.
I don't know, man. Changing the three minute pre-game to five minutes would be a minor but significant change. And changing the match limit from 20 to 25 minutes would be a minor but significant change as well. Some of the absolute best games of GOI are long as hell, but they're the ones that are WORTH it. GOI isn't a race; it's a marathon.
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Anyone who knows anything about guns knows that a long match doesn't mean sniping only bullshit. Those long matches are always the best ones. As for your thought on lobbies being just as long as matches thats bullshit, If your are going to make it timed then that isnt a problem it takes several mins for teams to decide on builds and loadouts, I still say a 6 min timer is enough time but its also not too long. As for match time I agree with Jedi 25 mins would be a lot better. Rushing players through matches caushes good players to loose. I can attest to that for my second round should have been a win but we felt the pressure of a stupid timer. As for the subs rule I think its stupid you cant have a repeated sub player, what does it matter if I have the same sub two weeks in a row.
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This point system is similar to the MMR system. It comes from the concept that more skilled opponents are worth more points, and less skilled is worth less. So if you have a match of a champion player against a novice, if the champion wins, they don't get a lot of points. However, if the novice wins, they earn a lot more points. There's a lot of variations on this type of system and it's present in many multiplayer games in one fashion or another.
You can consider it the evolution of the Hephaestus League. In that system, teams earned points for wins, regardless of who it was against. You could beat 10 novices or 10 veterans and it's still the same points. We want a system that gives value to the teams and also acts as a balancing factor.
So along with more skilled teams earning more points (the more you win, the more skilled you show yourself to be) we balance it by pairing the skilled and less skilled. This, ideally, will lead to some balanced matches which are more enjoyable to play and watch.
It's kind of like what Veteran Matches and/or GoIO MMR should be in the right conditions.
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Timers come into play from experience. I've seen tournaments that lasted way too long because a match or two went over an hour each (Sniping is just the most common). There have been events where the lobby wasn't timed and matches took an incredible amount of time to start. Today we had 6 matches on each stream. With 3 minutes each, that's 24 minutes of just sitting in the lobby. Then there's the added time of creating the lobby and getting the majority of players into the lobby. More than a few matches went over the 3 minutes before starting. So it's likely to be over 30 minutes of not being in a match.
If we move it up to six minutes, you could be looking at over an hour of that. 3+ hours of GoIO ever weekend for 9 more weeks would be stressful on a lot of people.
That being said, we can increase the lobby time (not to mention the other ways of getting more lobby time). However, I can't justify increasing the match time regardless of how loose it makes you.
For subs, they can play on your team as long as they want. However, they can't play for a different team immediately. I have adjusted the wording in the rule to make this more clear. If you have a sub for Team A, they can keep playing for Team A. If they want to play for Team B, they have to wait 3 weeks. I hope this makes sense.
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This point system is similar to the MMR system. It comes from the concept that more skilled opponents are worth more points, and less skilled is worth less. So if you have a match of a champion player against a novice, if the champion wins, they don't get a lot of points. However, if the novice wins, they earn a lot more points. There's a lot of variations on this type of system and it's present in many multiplayer games in one fashion or another.
You can consider it the evolution of the Hephaestus League. In that system, teams earned points for wins, regardless of who it was against. You could beat 10 novices or 10 veterans and it's still the same points. We want a system that gives value to the teams and also acts as a balancing factor.
So along with more skilled teams earning more points (the more you win, the more skilled you show yourself to be) we balance it by pairing the skilled and less skilled. This, ideally, will lead to some balanced matches which are more enjoyable to play and watch.
It's kind of like what Veteran Matches and/or GoIO MMR should be in the right conditions.
I'm satisfied with the explanation now. Makes sense. Thanks for indulging me!
As for match time I agree with Jedi 25 mins would be a lot better. Rushing players through matches caushes good players to loose.
However, I can't justify increasing the match time regardless of how loose it makes you.
I disagree completely, but lololol
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The reason why we have 3 mins as lobby and the game timer is set at 20 mins. is because we have only have a certain amount of referees and casters!!! making the time limit long would drag on the event for 4 hours. WE DONT HAVE THE MAN POWER TO DO THIS,THeCASTERS AND REFEREE cant GIVE up too much time. HAVE A HEART YOU ASSHOLES AND SUCK IT UP!!!!! YOU GUYS BARELY PLAY COMPETITIVE ANYWAY!!!. okay my rant is done
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I wanted to thank Thomas for putting in time and effort and making an event that is new yet evolved from things we have learned about competitive.
The 3 minute timer is amazing! How refreshing to be in a lobby and in game in UNDER 5 mins, omg nothing but love for this. If you need to go back and forth with a load out, you've already lost. You should know what your teams weakness and strengths are and play off those not play lobby counter. Even with the new partner each match this week, 3 mins was enough. And for the following weeks, if I understand correctly, we only have 1 partner for the whole week so it'll be even easier to figure out load outs in 3 mins.
The reason why we have 3 mins as lobby and the game timer is set at 20 mins. is because we have only have a certain amount of referees and casters!!! making the time limit long would drag on the event for 4 hours. WE DONT HAVE THE MAN POWER TO DO THIS,THeCASTERS AND REFEREE cant GIVE up too much time. HAVE A HEART YOU ASSHOLES AND SUCK IT UP!!!!! YOU GUYS BARELY PLAY COMPETITIVE ANYWAY!!!. okay my rant is done
+1 stop taking everyone that's involved in organizing and running an event for granted. They work hard to give us competitive or we wouldn't have any competitive at all.
Like, Ayetach, I thought this was amazing fun today!
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I hate counterpicking. Hate it with a passion. Worst part of Guns. 3 minutes in lobby are plenty. The only exception is technical problems, which is accounted for under the pause system. You can pause in lobby, BTW. Or talk to your partner before the lobby. I'd argue for blind lobbies, but people love their meta-games. What may help is if team matchups went out earlier-Thursday at latest, so you could decide a general plan there.
Sniping is also terrible. Twenty minutes is plenty. It gives pressure to actually make a plan, and take action, rather than try to wrangle for painful, incremental advantage. Especially given the number of casters we have, and number of teams and matches we have. Sometimes the odds are not in your favor. Adapt, and come up with a new play. I got screwed over by a pause today that probably wasn't technically legal. It happens. We are not DOTA. Thank god for that. Make competitive events easier, not harder. It's no wonder no one wants to put in the effort giving the waves of complaints I see every single event.
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I came away with a positive impression of day one. It was kinda messy, but that seems to be unavoidable. The one thing I'd ask is maybe an additional streamer so we don't end up waiting an hour between matches like my team's 2 and 3rd matches were.
Good work, regardless, looking forward to the rest of it o7
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20 mins is not long enough. #annoyed-af I want to actually be able to take my time to win not be forced by some timer. so stupid
Have you ever done competitive until now? Cause 20 minutes keeps things interesting. Sitting around hiding for 10 minutes is not entertaining in the slightest.
This is a reminder as to why timers that short are in place. ---> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJWHvEBpqug (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJWHvEBpqug)
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Team pairs are currently up, so you can start talking with your ally tam immediately. Matches/maps and such will be up on Wednesday. I want to give teams the opportunity to bring up complaints, notify us of breaks or forfeits, point out incorrect scores, etc. This way I don't have to change the matches repeatedly and confuse everyone more.
Lobby timer will almost definitely be increased to 5 minutes. Match length is very unlikely to change.
And additional streamer would be nice, and we'll see what we can do about it. We were lucky enough to get two streamers and 2 refs for today.
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What I really liked about the random pairings this week is that there isn't much planning. Teams mostly bring ships they play well on and improvise with their ally. The messy, fast paced, and brawl-ly games it brings are fun and interesting - I enjoyed the games. It really contrasts with the seriousness of SCS.
Though, I could never wrap my head around the need to stream every single match. The games went from from 3AM to 5.15AM for me, which is good because SCS usually ends at 6-7AM (unless I get wreck'd). It probably would have lasted much longer on a single stream, so thank you Dementio and Urz. Also really appreciate Thomas, refs, and everyone involved for hosting a 4-player tournament I've wanted to see for a long time.
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Questionable Ethics, hopefully still able to sign up !
Contact: IronicIntent
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Me being the clueless player i am, completely missed out on the signups. :(
Is there any way to still get in on this, or are my dreams forever crushed?
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Of course you can join in!
Late joining is still available this week. It will likely close out on Wednesday so we can release the matches for this upcoming Saturday. Just make sure you have a team of 4 players. When you're ready to sign up, post your team name and let us know that you're signing up.
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Hopefully it isn't too late, I would like to signup for my team
team : LMB (les moutons braisés)
Point of contact : Mirwen (http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198055095678/)
If you can't reach me contact Aoeris (http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197995192421) or Adramm (http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198017818983)
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one more and will we have 24 teams
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This should be pinned for those who're interested in signing up.
I've been thinking about what happens when a team just disappears from the league. It is in good faith for organizers to trust participants for their attendance. But as Thomas has said, it can happen. If a team no-shows and is not contactable, would they be disqualified for the next week and replaced? Doesn't make sense to keep including a team that's MIA.
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Right now we have it set up that teams can miss a weekend, but if they miss another weekend, they'll be removed. We will attempt to put in a new team to round out the numbers, but it does make the entire League difficult. If teams cannot show up for a week, please let me know ahead of time, as soon as possible. If there are teams interested in participating, even if the chance is slim for getting in, do not hesitate to let me know and stay in contact. If something opens up, it'll be open to whoever is available first.