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A Suggestion for the Echidna Light Flak Cannon

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Mr.Bando:
However, if I want to make it work better at what it's suppose to do at its given range:
-slightly reduce jitter by a few percent. Not too much so heavy clip can still be relevant for the longer shots. Or so you can at least hit a galleon a few times if you use Lemok.
-reduce damage per shot but increase magazine size by 2 or 3 shots to make a zero net gain/loss on damage potential per reload.
-can't complain about projectile speed, that can stay where it is
-I like the idea of increasing primary damage while decreasing secondary damage, but arming time should be tweaked slightly to compensate.

Dementio:
Counter argumentative wall of text.

The Light Flak can empty its clip in less than 2.5 seconds (regardless of ammo type) to do 672 damage per clip (normal rounds), reloads within 4s, like the minelauncher and thus quicker than any other gun in the game, so you are quickly able to shoot at broken armor again in case you timed it wrong.

Use a buff hammer and burst or heatsink on it and you can kill 3 out of 7 ships in one clip, while two more can be finished by a Hades or even a Gatling. Galleon and Goldfish the only one that can survive, but are dead after the next clip. The Goldfish and Squid can repair their armor quickly, yes, but then again, the Flak empties its clip very quickly and reloads very quickly too.

Its spread can be felt, but it can still very reliably hit a targets hull at its max range. At max range the shot is easier to be dodged so if you are up against a competent pilot that has decent balloon/engine health, you will have troubles, yes, but the same goes for a lot of other guns, so predict the enemy pilot's movement. #GunnerSkill

The Light Flak is better than the Artemis and Banshee when it comes to killing, because it gets the kill much quicker. The moment you start creating fire stacks with the Banshee or disabling with an Artemis you will run into the issue of not being able to get the kill, because most of your clip is gone or you are reloading and when you are done, the enemy armor is rebuild.
Fun Fact: Instead of creating fires and disabling guns, the Flak does create a lot of smoke. I only had to face a double light Flak once and I couldn't see the enemy in front me, as a pilot.

Remove the arming time of the Light Flak and you get a better Mortar, not able to get the kill in one clip against all the ships, but getting the kill in two clips against all the ships, while it can profit more from the Gatligns 450m range.



And this is a quote from how the Light Flak's balance changed, because I want to compare the current Light Flak to the old one:

--- Quote from: Keyvias on September 19, 2013, 09:34:28 am ---- Light Flak: Spread 1 degree (from 4), Arming Time 0.85s (from 0, arming range 300m), Range 1000m (from 790m), Scope Power 2x (from 1.5), 6 Ammo Clip Size (from 4), 2 Bullets/s (from 2.32 b/s), 45 Explosive Direct / 30 Explosive AoE (from 96/30)

--- End quote ---
It's rate of fire was then increased to ~2.8 b/s, direct explosive damage is now 50 and its arming time is 150m, later its reload time was decreased to 4s from 5s. And it also got more zoom and was decreased in gun rotation speed, but is still one of the fastest to rotate guns.
So compared to what you said about the old flak

--- Quote from: Lieutenant Noir on September 01, 2015, 11:19:44 pm ---From what I've heard of the old Light Flak let me compare what the suggested Light Flak would be like
Old Light Flak
-Easy to shoot and land hits, no arming, Longer mid-range and short range due to no arming, decent damage

--- End quote ---

It did have decent damage per shot, but it was never easier to land hits, especially with even more degrees of spread and it did have less maximum range than today. Damage per clip, unbuffed and normal rounds was 705.6 and emptied its clip in 2 seconds, compared to the current one, which empties its clip in 1.75s, with normal rounds.
DPS is not all that important for explosive guns, but if you want to know: Current ~117 vs old ~109 (both normal rounds)



The current Light Flak is perfectly fine as it is, while I personally believe the old one was worse when compared to the current one.
Instead of making the Light Flak more like the Heavy Flak, why not use the Heavy Flak to begin with? The Light Carronade is also not that similar to the Heavy Carronade anymore. It can destroys balloons in two clips, while the Heavy C. can destroy balloons in one clip. Light Flak can kill every ship in two clips, Heavy Flak can destroy every ship in one clip (well, it is guaranteed if charged rounds and buffed).
And when talking about arming time: It really isn't that hard to stay 150m away from the enemy or 120m when using heatsink, come on now.

MightyKeb:

--- Quote from: Dementio on September 02, 2015, 10:13:21 am --- It really isn't that hard to stay 150m away from the enemy or 120m when using heatsink, come on now.

--- End quote ---

Oh yes, and the moment a single shot hits before arming you tend to lose that oh-so-mighty damage potential for maybe a third clip or so, which can put it on par with banshee. It infact is on par with banshee as long as something as limiting and unreliable as the arming timer is in place.

Lieutenant Noir:
What builds do you bring the Flak on?

Let me know the ways that you use it.

I have a Mobula with top Flak, Balloon Hades, Hull Gatling, Balloon-wing Artemis, and Hull-wing Flare.
I have a third crewmember as buff engi and when I spot an enemy, I would make them top up the buff on the Flak and quickly jump onto the Artemis.
If the armor breaks (Hopefully before the buff on the Flak runs out... it almost always runs out) I jump onto the Flak with heat sink.

Another is a range centralized spire with lumberjack, Hades and Artemis up top, with a Flak at the bottom. I make the gunner load in greased or heat sink into the Flak for when Armor breaks.

I want to know the special role that everyone seems to see in it

Dementio:
I say, you should use the Light Flak when you just want to get the kill and intend to not brawl face to face.

Although I don't do many Pyramidions, if I were to choose between front Hades/Artemis and front Hades/Flak, I would choose the one with the Flak. The Pyramidion is rather vulnerable, so the enemy should preferebly die quickly. It is also a good support dps ship.

I also believe that in every Hades/double Artemis trifecta one Artemis could be replaced with a Light Flak and be just as efficent, although the Artemis lack of upwards arcs restrict the Light Flak as the ship will probably want to be above the enemy -> balloons may block Flak and probably won't attack from below, because of the Artemis -> less opportunities for victory.

I do believe that Mobulas with a Light Flak perform better than with Banshees or Mortars, unless it is intended for it to be purely for close range. I personally wouldn't put the Light Flak on the top wings though, because I always fear that guns like that won't have the arcs that I want them to have.



A lot of my ships are very disable oriented so I often don't get the chance or need to use it at all.

I have exactly one ship where I use it on: Lumberjack Spire, with Light Flak on top, bottom (lesmok) Gatling, top side flare. I have the Flak, because Mortar doesn't have the range and Banshee is not going to kill anything.

There was also a Mobula loadout I once adapted: Top Flak, bottom hull Hades, top hull Hades 2, balloon bottom Artemis, balloon top Flare. The idea was, I guess, that the Hadeses would destroy the armor quicker than a normal Hades Pyra, while the balloon Artemis makes sure armor and Hadeses stay safe. In order to really kill something the Pilot had to use the Light Flak. It was very effective, but I feared that once somebody was smart enough to actually get close to me, I would be dead, so I stopped using it, and also because I couldn't really move around stuff while shooting and having arc.

I have a Squid with front Hades and side Banshee. If the Light Flak, or Hades, had better horizontal arcs, I would use a side Light Flak instead.
As well, I would also do side Light Flak on a Squid with a front Gatling, but I don't do Squids with a front Gatling, so that's that.

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