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Hwacha and Pyramidion Balance?

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Mr.Bando:

--- Quote from: MightyKeb on July 31, 2015, 08:28:17 am ---
--- Quote from: Fynx on July 31, 2015, 08:15:21 am ---
--- Quote from: MightyKeb on July 30, 2015, 10:13:44 am ---I think it would've been better all along for the Heavy Carronade to reduce it's Fletchette damage to a point where it leaves the balloon at 5-10% hp so you had Heavy Clip for disables and keeping ships literally still in the air or Charged/Loch for damage and two shotting balloons. Light Carronade would also have to be affected by this aswell.

--- End quote ---

Noooo leave my carronade alone ;_;

--- End quote ---

I believe it's already nerfed to this point (Excluding Heavy Carro, I think Ive seen it two shot balloons still but I cant tell because literally every fish is hwacha now thanks to muse) Mine is just a slight damage buff compared to what we have + reverting heavy.

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A few things I like to correct you on

Heavy carro has always been able to two-shot a balloon without any damage buffs either from ammunition or the buff tool providing the balloon catches all the shots from its shotgun spread.

That's what heavy clip did. Tighten its spread, effectively increases its useful range. Also concentrates the shots into a small area so you can take out guns and engines with it.

Lochnagar allowed you to one shot a balloon. Yes..  In one shot. Not two, one. At maximum range. What made this particularly scary was the game mechanic where any damage done that exceeded the health of component flowed over onto the armour and hull without any damage modifiers. Loch a badly damaged balloon and pretty much strip off all the armour covering the hull as well.

Mr.Bando:
I still don't know how I would like my pyra. Its top speed is decent enough to remain unchanged. But I agree that one of its two major nerfs need to be reverted. Either make it a slow turner but back to its old tanky state. Or lighten up its hull HP but give it more agility and acceleration.

That or have its stats fine tuned. It should be its own ship, not share similar abilities in tanking or turning of those of a squid or galleon.

Newbluud:
I don't know how much difference it would make, so educate me if it's irrelevant, but give a hefty nerf to the hwacha's explosive/piercing damage. I know it's not really high, but make it a little more specialised to the disable role might be a suitable nerf without removing the satisfaction of the feed spam when you blast a ship at point blank.

After all, a good hwacha blast can hurt the hull more than I think it should, additionally, the fact that it can kill is too much in my opinion.

BlackenedPies:
I would gladly fly a pyra with 550 hull but not with 2.25 m/s2.

The hwatcha used to be balanced in terms of damage because heavy clip was necessary for range and burst was only good up close. Now since the jitter was reduced by 1/3 burst is the only effective ammo and it's damn good. Rather than decreasing damage it should be reverted back to near the old jitter. As much as I love the new buff burst it's too powerful. Because I'm biased I think the jitter should be increased to 5.

Reducing the explosive damage wouldn't hurt balance much. A small 10-20% reduction might help. One clip of burst deals 948 dmg if every shot hits hull.

Newbluud:

--- Quote from: BlackenedPies on August 06, 2015, 06:14:31 pm ---The hwatcha used to be balanced in terms of damage because heavy clip was necessary for range and burst was only good up close. Now since the jitter was reduced by 1/3 burst is the only effective ammo and it's damn good. Rather than decreasing damage it should be reverted back to near the old jitter. As much as I love the new buff burst it's too powerful. Because I'm biased I think the jitter should be increased to 5.

Reducing the explosive damage wouldn't hurt balance much. A small 10-20% reduction might help. One clip of burst deals 948 dmg if every shot hits hull.

--- End quote ---

Personally, I'm all for hitting the explosive damage pretty heavily. Considering how effective the weapon is at ship-wide disables, if used by a gunner worth his weight in salt, I feel it's still a viable option if reduced almost entirely to a support role. Keep its shatter damage stupidly high, I say, let em break all the things, just remove its ability to kill. I feel doing so would put it on par with some of the other heavy guns, in that it is a situational weapon, not a spam weapon. After all, the others all have very specialised roles; why should one be more versatile and commendable in all the fields it is used in?

Breaking everything, pulling engis away from their cycles, or the hull, can spell death for a ship. Giving the source of that the power to one-clip most ships up close (especially considering said ship is likely slowed due to having only just repaired engines, so closing the gap is easy) is broken, I think. It feels that the only viable counter for the hwacha at present is to stay out of the way or snipe it out before it unleashes a payload of screen-shaking despair.

I don't feel the current hwacha is broken in terms of the game. We've all fought enough quad hwacha galleons to know how deal with it, but the fact that everything else is so niche makes me feel like something isn't being looked at right in terms of its stats.

I don't know. I guess I'd prefer it to be less of a dumb weapon. It feels dumb in comparison to the other heavy guns, wherein you aim for the general area of a ship you want to make stop working, and can unleash on a downed hull for a kill.

Again, I could be very wrong. I'm still new to the community and a lower-mid-level player. I could be overlooking a massive downside besides the huge reload time, so feel free to correct me. I'm just brainstorming possible nerfs that won't do to the hwacha what happened to the minotaur.

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