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Charged and Burst mines

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Watchmaker:

--- Quote from: Extirminator on June 15, 2015, 05:13:18 pm ---Are you sure that the ignition chance is added on top of the existing fire chance of the 25% to make it 45%? The question popped up many times before and I can even recall you specifically saying it was a separate chance of 20% from the existing one.

--- End quote ---

Yes.  It was at one point handled differently, so you may be remembering a response from that time.  However it's been this way for about a year now.

Crafeksterty:

--- Quote from: Extirminator on June 15, 2015, 09:55:23 am ---
Actually, it will destroy the armor of only squid, spire, goldfish and mobula with one shot(non-buffed armor).
Pyramidion, junker and galleon armor will not die, because it will do 601 damage and all of those ships have more armor than that. Unless you buffed your loch mine and then only galleon armor can survive it.

--- End quote ---

Ofcourse! But you have to add in bits of battle here and there, you dont SOLELY use the lochnagar mine, theres other guns too that probably withled the armor. And on a spire, the probability of that is grand. 601 is a number i dont know is completely true because on buffed pyra the armor goes down to like 10% remaining or so. But still good chunk greater than half the armor. Perhaps it just looks like that and so the numbers are true. But in anycase, panic lochnagar does make the ship enemy ship go WTF and their armor wont be coming up any time because of that.

BlackenedPies:
If primary damage is added to impact, does the burst radius start at the ship as opposed to 20 meters away?

Extirminator:

--- Quote from: BlackenedPies on June 15, 2015, 07:33:31 pm ---If primary damage is added to impact, does the burst radius start at the ship as opposed to 20 meters away?

--- End quote ---

I would assume not, because the center of the projectile explosion is at the mine location, and not the first spot it hits the ship at. It's like the mechanic on any other projectile hit, I wouldn't think mines will be any exception. Also, logically thinking it makes more sense for the distance to be measured from the mine detonation location.

Daft Loon:
More testing   :D
1's5's6'snormal031323222123042102220304051212110414Averages0.5531.332.44
The table is showing the number of each stack size set on a pyramidion by an incendiary mine and the number set by a normal mine. The mines were striking just to the side of the helm and hitting all components (hitting them with the "beak" spares the engines).
The averages are about in line with the 25%-45% change. Incendiary mines do seem to cause significant extra fires as they should.


--- Quote from: Extirminator on June 15, 2015, 09:23:12 am ---
....

There is not even a valid point in comparing and contrasting loch and charged due to their different arming ranges - charged will simply not be useful within ~165m of range while lochnagar will still be useful and be able to "buy you time" as I stated before. Another point you forgot to mention though is that you are unable to do anything with charged when the armor is down to damage the hull while with loch you are practically able to get them down to 50% of their health.

As to burst being effective in the sense of damaging more components, I still count that as less effective than charged doing more damage to armor, balloon and hull which helps you more with your higher multipliers of 0.8,1.8 and 1.5 respectively in comparison to the 0.6 of guns and engines multiplier.

....

As for junker size, the exact length from the center of the light engines hitbox to the center of hitbox of the front gun on the Z axis is 36.189m so that could give you an approximation of the junker's size.

....


--- End quote ---

I think the direct-charged to loch comparison depends on where the mine is, on the side of a junker paired with another mine charged is useless inside its arming time, on the front of a pyra paired with say a banshee direct charged hits are a short range Gatling substitute that can strip armor for the other gun or a ram. Its probably still not as good as loch but that's the tradeoff for +30% damage at charged arming range.

I wont say burst is as good (until you put it in a minefield where its #1) but the engine and gun damage is meaningful, proportional impact damage is about equal to non hull components because armor has less health than balloon and components have less health than (average) armor. Guns and engines have 200/425 and 300/525 health respectively, standard mine component damage is 85 so a burst mine will take about 28% of a ships turning power (the largest effect). With a single mine the effect isn't that great but it stacks up faster than other types when chain reacting mines.

Where do you find the dimensions of the ships? the most i can see anywhere is the profile area for the hull/balloon.


If you fly into it a loch mine wont break the mobula's armor either because it loses damage to AoE outside 15m and the trigger range is 20m. 5/15 meters of loss is 1/3 of the 80% max loss so does only 73.3% of its damage (165% of standard mine damage).

On an odd note does anyone know why the "+" (plus) symbol refuses to show up when i preview posts?

Edit: another odd thing i have noticed is overkill armor damage from mine chain reactions still causing no hull damage, do mines triggered at once apply all their damage in the same instant rather than the primary then secondary way most guns do (allowing secondary to do hull)? or have i been setting up tests that do exactly the armor damage time after time?

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