Main > Gameplay
Charged and Burst mines
Extirminator:
--- Quote from: Gilder Unfettered on June 15, 2015, 06:37:12 am ---Well if you are running with just a single mine launcher then Loch may have a benefit because 1 launcher has a much harder job of stopping a foe than two. I tend to always run with a twin setup and I shoot for 2-4 mines out at once before impact is scored. So ideally the foe is always running into two or if only one, they'll be bounced into the 2nd. Cripples the vessel and before they can move I'll have a cage of mines around. Then its just a matter of detonating and getting the instagib kill. A ship should never get in close enough for loch to be needed with 2+ miners. If it does then either I'm disconnected or my miner has no idea what they are doing.
--- End quote ---
The scenario you described is a perfect scenario, there is always room for compensating for instances that could occur. No one is perfect and you are bound to get in a situation like I described sooner or later. Not in all maps you can see them coming from a mile ahead, you could be just turning a corner and they are right there at your face. If you are prepared for every case your chances of failing drop drastically. When you design a good build you need to have both long range combat and close range combat, maybe even disable potential to be ready for every scenario - same with mines don't just dismiss the possibility someone will fuck up or the enemy outsmarted you and don't bring lochnagar because of it.
Also, you clearly haven't read the entirety of the post:
--- Quote from: Gilder Unfettered on June 15, 2015, 06:37:12 am ---The range isn't the same tho. Incendiary is still a little shorter.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: Extirminator on June 15, 2015, 04:38:02 am ---A conclusion which leads me to my third ammo type to be heatsink rather than incendiary, yes, an unorthodox pick. However, with the difference of only ~15.5m from the incendiary mine in arming time and a detonation radius of 20m for the mine, you are theoretically able to hit every single target with both inc and heatsink at the same range, you just have to have better placement.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: Gilder Unfettered on June 15, 2015, 06:37:12 am ---Plus you also have the fire ignition being greater. I've hit plenty of incendiary mines and they can be pretty nasty.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: Extirminator on June 15, 2015, 04:38:02 am ---As for people who might argue that incendiary has a better chance of starting fires, the fire rate increase of the mine launcher with incendiary is a mere 0.2 fires per shot increase and a measly 0.05 fires per second increase, so yeah...
--- End quote ---
Yeah what you get is on average 1 stack of fire for every 20 seconds of continuous usage, which means 5 mines hitting directly one after the other. You'll get 1 extra stack of fire in that time on mostly chem sprayed ships not to mention that if you hit that many mines within that time-span most of the components are already dead from the damage and the fires will not do anything.
--- Quote from: Daft Loon on June 15, 2015, 07:19:10 am ---From testing lochnagar i would suggest not trying to use it if they are more likely to trigger it at 20m than have it land within that. The results were variable:
-Rising into the mine with a junker did only balloon damage
-Flying into it with it visible just below the balloon did balloon damage, destroyed the front gun and did armor damage slightly less than charged
-Descending onto it did about 3/4 armor damage, 3/4 damage to the 4 rear guns and broke the front one (forgot if it hit the balloon)
If you substitute for direct charged hits you get:
-About the same armor damage as the best case (with an extra direct hit instead of a gun rebuild)
-No 'kick'
-No unreliable medium-high balloon damage
-No very unreliable but possibly crippling component damage
- +30% damage at standard range
--- End quote ---
That is because you lose 50% aoe radius using lochnagar, you only damage components that are the closest to the impact point. That is why I said that you could be hitting components if close to the point of impact.
There is not even a valid point in comparing and contrasting loch and charged due to their different arming ranges - charged will simply not be useful within ~165m of range while lochnagar will still be useful and be able to "buy you time" as I stated before. Another point you forgot to mention though is that you are unable to do anything with charged when the armor is down to damage the hull while with loch you are practically able to get them down to 50% of their health.
As to burst being effective in the sense of damaging more components, I still count that as less effective than charged doing more damage to armor, balloon and hull which helps you more with your higher multipliers of 0.8,1.8 and 1.5 respectively in comparison to the 0.6 of guns and engines multiplier.
Also, yeah, when I was saying 0.2 fires per shot I meant on each component separately but that is really not a lot and not something that should be taken into account when picking ammo types because its quite negligible. and the formula for fire damage damage for amount of stacks is in fact linear, only that a base damage is added to it:
fire_damage_per_sec = 8 + (2*fire_stacks_number)
So the first stack is more substantial than the others, because without it, there wouldn't be the added base damage.
But considering that the chance for 5 stacks to add to a hit component is 25% and the inc ignition to add 1 stack is 20% a component is more likely to get ignited by the 5 stacks before the incendiary stacks, making the addition to fire damage more likely to be the one of 2 fire damage per second rather than 10.
As for junker size, the exact length from the center of the light engines hitbox to the center of hitbox of the front gun on the Z axis is 36.189m so that could give you an approximation of the junker's size.
Also I did your same tests and looks like when the mine explodes it applies both direct and aoe damage at the same time, I always thought that it will only do the secondary damage because it never directly hits - I wonder if that is intended?
If that is the case you are actually able to get 0.4 stacks per shot from incendiary mines and about 0.1 stacks per second which is still pretty bad though. Although I have ran into enough mines for it to statistically happen way over 10 times already and still haven't gotten 2 or 7 stacks from one mine - so the ignition doesn't seem right.
Crafeksterty:
With my heavy flak spire, Loch mine usualy tends to take out all armor giving way for loch heavy flak.
So like, you use default mines for the usual and dont expect to use loch. But loch is there for the super close encounters where they managed to get passed a mine. That loch mine will open up most ships (Just not galleon)
Extirminator:
--- Quote from: Crafeksterty on June 15, 2015, 09:49:19 am ---With my heavy flak spire, Loch mine usualy tends to take out all armor giving way for loch heavy flak.
So like, you use default mines for the usual and dont expect to use loch. But loch is there for the super close encounters where they managed to get passed a mine. That loch mine will open up most ships (Just not galleon)
--- End quote ---
Actually, it will destroy the armor of only squid, spire, goldfish and mobula with one shot(non-buffed armor).
Pyramidion, junker and galleon armor will not die, because it will do 601 damage and all of those ships have more armor than that. Unless you buffed your loch mine and then only galleon armor can survive it.
BlackenedPies:
I heard that buffed mines only deal damage if they are buffed during the point of impact, not when they are fired. Sounds odd but is it true? Why do loch mines seem to cause less push?
So incendiary only adds single fire stacks not the 5 stacks.
In some situations loch is unnecessary but often it's vital. I use incendiary on squid and for the spire pilot mine, and I take the time to preload right side mobula mine with incendiary while the gunner already has heatsink (charged heatsink loch for merc/flak/mine). I'll switch to heatsink if you say so. I always brought heatsink on mine pyra, and originally brought charged but luckily Renaulde convinced me to loch. Back when pyra was great we played 100 matches straight in a moonshine tar triple mine pyra.
Queso:
--- Quote from: BlackenedPies on June 15, 2015, 10:27:36 am ---I heard that buffed mines only deal damage if they are buffed during the point of impact, not when they are fired. Sounds odd but is it true?
--- End quote ---
This should NOT be true. If any data seems to contradict this assumption then I can investigate, but a quick look through doesn't suggest any behavior of this sort.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version