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Was GOIO A Fluke?

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DJ Logicalia:
I would also be interested in this information

Dev Bubbles:
yeah so the median play time that Magkel had is right.  It's 3hr46min.  And there is of course a long tail.  Distribution wise, if we use 2 hrs, then over 2/3 of players play over 2 hrs.  About 45% of players play over 5 hrs.  It's not the greatest, but not too bad either.  As Magkel pointed out, we could do better, and we should.  We should continue to address different pain points.  I guess my point is just that if we say we identified some issues new players are facing (from tutorial to UI to mechanics etc.) At least as a developer, I do look at it as, say if I address an issue that I think has ease of use ramifications, I don't think that's a zero sum process.  But of course we do realize that sometimes the solution for one group may not be needed for another group.  It's tough, but the spirit of what we do, and our point of departure isn't always to look at user groups separately. 

MagKel:
I made some mistakes in the text that would completely warp the meaning of what i wanted to write, I think I corrected them.

@howard : I was very surprised and a little sad too to see such a small average. It warms my heart to know it was wrong. Dammit it!  :( But it is still much better than before. Still more has to be done because more players=more fun. i hope the teaching tournament becomes a permanent thing.
@jacob : I am very sympathetic with the struggle of MUSE. I complain, yes. i criticize, yes. I can even sound arrogant when i say "Do it this way" but at the end of the day I want you to be successful because you deserve it for all the work and love put in this game.
@MUSE in general : We are mad. Not because you are doing a terrible job but because we don't know where this is going. We are the customers at your Winchester, we come to you every day and notice every small detail that changes. Some people like it, some people don't and yet everybody seems constantly mad at you. it is a normal reaction and you need to accept it: this community is made up of very passionate young adults from modern democracies, controversy and debate are nonnegotiable traits that sometimes will boil the blood in your veins.

If we see a change, we are vocal about it. If we spend time in Dev App and try the changes it is because we are afraid some patch is going to break the game and make it lose its appeal. Is it going to happen? Possibly, nobody including you knows every single implication. The blenderfish, the metamidion and all the other unbalances were not evident in the beginning. Did it happen? The fact that there is people playing the game after 3 years is a testament that maybe it is not that bad.

My opinion as a new player and someone who's beginning to be involved in the community is that MUSE shouldn't be surprised that people are irrationally mad at their game, while the players should start remembering more often that this is a product, not a public institution. And because it is a product the idea behind it is to make something that will be awarded by MUSE's peers as magnificent and successful, giving them the chance to grow into an even bigger entity. It works on a scale and scope that is many orders of magnitude greater than the competitive scene or the individual fun of anyone involved here.

The biggest problem IMHO of this conversation is not the occasional shouting match but the fact that it can't lead anywhere because the Devs are also friends of the players and the players are also friends of the Devs. it is the "Indie Syndrome" where everything is less institutionalized compared to a true corporate entity, leading to a bar conversation. it is nobody's fault and yet it is detrimental because MUSE cares about the GOIO players, grew fond of the few that lived with their creature for so long and is particularly sensitive to criticism.

We all see you on the Dev Fireside Chat. You want to talk about Adventure Mode, Coop Mode and instead we bog you down with game balance issues and MMR. It is not that we don't care about them, it is that our scope is completely different from yours and apparently you don't realize it. We play the game, we don't build it. What we care is not getting stuck in a component, not the AI of the Coop. What we care is counters to blending and meta, competitive tools and way so that uncooperative players don't get into out way. Our Fun is different from your Fun, hence the MMR hate, the Scrub hate and the general noisy complaining here in the forums. It is never going to change, you must take it just like we must accept that we don't have control over the direction GOIO takes. We are a populations of cats that will loudly complain every-time we want to go out and eat, disappear for a while worrying you mad and yet show our love in the most unexpected times and ways.

Tl:dr MUSE and veteran players suffer from "Indie Syndrome" while leaving in two very different dimensions: MUSE would like the players to unconditionally love their work even if it diminishes their fun, players would like MUSE to unconditionally love them and cater to every desire. It can't be done, it will never happen and the lasting friendships developed bridging the two communities often transcend the conversation in a dialog between humans instead of being between public relations and player. As expected, drama ensues.

Dev Bubbles:
@MagKel, I really really appreciate this. It is a perspective that I need to heed and remind myself of as well.  Especially with this thread, I've done a poor job in my responses, and I totally apologize to everyone.  Thank you to taking the time to write this.  It definitely helps keeping things in perspective for me.  Thank you so much, Howard

Keyvias:
Just wanted to jump in here and I wanted to thank you for amazingly clear and objective look you wrote out MagKel.

I definitely agree there is often times a tilted view of what our priorities are, what our players priorities are, and what players think we think our players priorities are.
As far as excitedly pushing Co-Op in fireside, mostly because taglines like that get the largest number of players to show up to chat with us. We have the lead designer there though and take all the MMR, meta, and Skirmish design questions we can. Trust me, we love doing it as well. Co-Op could easily viewed as our second kid so we do like to brag about the AI plays no longer leaving a brown stain on the side of mountain, but believe me when I say a lot of concern, time, and love are sill focused on Skirmish.

The biggest issue I feel like we run into is convincing players we actually act on feedback and this is because we get conflicting feedback. We get love and hate for every idea, balance change, or tweak we test.

As far as our feelings getting hurt, if people fall out of love with Guns or don't like the direction, of course it's not our favorite thing to hear, but we can respect and understand it. I think what bothers us the most is when it feels like information is twisted or incorrect especially when we have an open door policy.
We definitely want to do better to push this though. Howard and I have often given out our skype info and had very long (and very productive!) talks with players.
I'm Keyvias on skype (and pretty much everywhere) feel free to contact me directly.

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