Anti-Pyramidion Mathematics

[Indreams]

I made a graph of ships a few months ago. I've been meaning to create a graph of weapons, but I haven't even started.

Instead, I've done a little scenario calculation.

Scenario:
A pyramidion, at the same altitude as yourself, is charging towards you at maximum speed (32m/s). You know that pyramidion's weakness is maneuverability. You decide to change the altitude to dodge the incoming gat/mortar destruction.

Using basic kinematic physics, I've calculated the following.

Results:
If you decide to move up/down, from rest, when the pyramidion is at 500m,
Pyramidion will come to your position in 15.625 Seconds.
If you are a...
Junker: move maximum of 218.055m up or down.
Galleon: move maximum of 201.483m up or down.
Squid: move maximum of 229.5m up or down.
Goldfish: move maximum of 221.06m up or down.
Spire: move maximum of 227.092m up or down.
Mobula: move maximum of 246.492m up or down.
And the Pyramidion, if it decides to match your motion, can move up to 212.796m up or down.

In same Scenario, with Pyramidion at 300m
Pyramidion will reach get to you in 9.375 Seconds.
Junker: 111.43m
Galleon: 95.171m
Squid: 123.25m
Goldfish: 114.872m
Spire: 120.842m
Mobula: 140.179m
Pyramdion can match up to: 106.734m

In same Scenario, with Pyramidion at 200m
Pyramidion will reach get to you in 6.25 Seconds.
Junker: 58.1177m
Galleon: 49.9453m
Squid: 70.125m
Goldfish: 61.7783m
Spire: 67.7167m
Mobula: 87.0232m
Pyramdion can match up to: 54.7023m

In same Scenario, with Pyramidion at 100m
Pyramidion will reach get to you in 3.125 Seconds.
Junker: 14.6484m
Galleon: 10.9863m
Squid: 19.5314m
Goldfish: 15.8691m
Spire: 18.3105m
Mobula: 33.8669m
Pyramdion can match up to: 13.4277m

In same Scenario, with Pyramidion at 50m
Pyramidion will reach get to you in 1.5625 Seconds.
Junker: 3.66211m
Galleon: 2.74658m
Squid: 4.88281m
Goldfish: 3.96729m
Spire: 4.57764m
Mobula: 9.15527m
Pyramdion can match up to: 3.35693m


And this is about it for now. Read through the calculations. If there are anybody willing, check my math.

Let's discuss Pyramidion with some numbers.

[HamsterIV]

As much fun as doing math is, I am not sure how these numbers will help in game decision making. The numbers you should really be concerned with when trying to out maneuver an enemy ship are the maximum turn angles of the guns vs your ship position. Even if were to calculate all those things I doubt you could ever look up the appropriate figure mid battle. So do what the rest of us do and use experience and your gut feeling to choose when and how to dodge.

[Squidslinger Gilder]

Now calculate for pilot tools

[Crafeksterty]

Current pyra armor damage Goal: 1045 (This is the number you want to hit with damage to get the pyras armor down.)
Im saying that because buffed pyra armor is 845 i belive with +200 mallet repair. Not giving in the account for spanners.

Also correct me if im wrong.

[Indreams]

I really just wanted to get an idea about what you can do.
And, being a math nerd, I love doing calculation for things I care about. School makes me do calculation for stuff I don't care about.

Examining the values, I can get some ideas about how to play the game.
These are four conclusions that helps me.
1.) Beginning of gat range (around 500. I think the base value is 450) is bad moment to start moving. I should move about 3~4 seconds after I head the first piercing sound. At 500, a closing Pyra captain has about 15 solid seconds to react, and he will match my vertical movements.
2.) Junker should not attempt to move over a pyra. Pyra can match the vertical movement of a Junker. My new tactic is to go under (where 1~6m difference will let me balloon block) or to go to the blind side. I'm scraping "my go over and get behind them" tactic.
3.) I need to use Pilot tools against a pyra. The vertical difference isn't as great as I thought it was.
4.) Mobula should always use the vertical advantage against a Pyra. Mobula seems to get a consistent 40~50m advantage on a Pyra.

I would calculate for every possible scenario if I could. This is my little model that helps me (and I hope others) feel a little more secure about their plays. This really helps me because: I had a lot of fun working on this in my statistics class (I have near perfect score in that class), and I'm a nerd who feels security in knowing stuff like, dps of a gatling.

I wish I could go with gut feelings and experience, but I'm still not very experiences, and my gut feeling never tells me anything except its hungry.

[Indreams]

Current pyra armor damage Goal: 1045 (This is the number you want to hit with damage to get the pyras armor down.)
Im saying that because buffed pyra armor is 845 i belive with +200 mallet repair. Not giving in the account for spanners.

Also correct me if im wrong.

I think that's about right, except mallet is 250 health.

So its actually 650 (base) * 1.3 (buff) + 250 (mallet) = 1095. That's just about a clip of base gatling.

[HamsterIV]

If you like math try this one:
Take the maxmimum forward speed of a pyramidion subtract the maximum backward speed of a mobula and call that "closing speed".

Then find the difference between the maximum range of a gateling gun when using lesmok vs using greased and call that the "uncontested shooting range"

Divide "uncontested shooting range" by "closing speed" to find "uncontested shooting time"

Multiply uncontested shooting time by the DPS of 2 lesmok Gatling guns against armor.

If that value is greater than Crafeksterty's 1045 then you can strip a pyra's hull armor before it gets in to gat range by kiting a 2x gat 1 morter mobula with a lesmok engineer build.

[Kamoba]

If you like math try this one:
Take the maxmimum forward speed of a pyramidion subtract the maximum backward speed of a mobula and call that "closing speed".

Then find the difference between the maximum range of a gateling gun when using lesmok vs using greased and call that the "uncontested shooting range"

Divide "uncontested shooting range" by "closing speed" to find "uncontested shooting time"

Multiply uncontested shooting time by the DPS of 2 lesmok Gatling guns against armor.

If that value is greater than Crafeksterty's 1045 then you can strip a pyra's hull armor before it gets in to gat range by kiting a 2x gat 1 morter mobula with a lesmok engineer build.

I've been on the receiving end of that.... and the mortar gunner was already shooting high to account for hydro dodge too, you can imagine the outcome...

[Indreams]

If you like math try this one:
Take the maxmimum forward speed of a pyramidion subtract the maximum backward speed of a mobula and call that "closing speed".

Then find the difference between the maximum range of a gateling gun when using lesmok vs using greased and call that the "uncontested shooting range"

Divide "uncontested shooting range" by "closing speed" to find "uncontested shooting time"

Multiply uncontested shooting time by the DPS of 2 lesmok Gatling guns against armor.

If that value is greater than Crafeksterty's 1045 then you can strip a pyra's hull armor before it gets in to gat range by kiting a 2x gat 1 morter mobula with a lesmok engineer build.

That's actually a very interesting math, if not a very complicated one.

Lesmok gives +70% muzzle velocity. And I believe that when ships fly backward, the muzzle velocity, and ultimately the range is effected. I believe the same will go for the chasing pyramidion, which will likely have its range increased. And although gatling's range is 450m, we know that it isn't overly accurate at max range, especially against a ship with low profile, as Pyramidion is when facing their enemy.

Regardless, my nerdness has been intrigued. Give me about an hour and I'll find out if I can work this.

[Indreams]

Actually, didn't take me that long...

There were two problems in making calculations for this. First, I don't know how fast Mobula flies backward (max speed). Second, I am not very familiar with Guns of Icarus's gun physics. But the point of these mathematics are creating models.

Gatling has a range of 450m with projectile speed of 500m/s. That says the bullet stays alive for .9 seconds.

Lesmok increases your gatling bullet's speed to 500 * 1.7 = 850m/s. I assume, as I am not familiar with Mobula's backward speed, that the Mobula is moving at around 24m/s (Mobula's max forward speed is 28m/s). So, Mobula's range is .9s * (850m/s - 24m/s) = 743.5m.

Similar calculation on the Pyramidion, with muzzle velocity of 400m/s, forward max velocity of 32m/s , gives the range of 388.8m.

That's a difference of 354.6m in range. Seeing that the Pyramidion closes range at 8m/s, that gives the mobula 44.325 seconds to fire.

Given that I had insufficient data, and that the bullet's range was actually shorter than my calculation, I will say that the Mobula has less than 44 seconds to fire. But I can't imagine that the window is less than twenty seconds.


Gatling, with the fire rate of 8.33 bullets per second, with its reduced clip size of 57, will fire its entire clip in 6.8 seconds. in 18.7 seconds, the gatling will have fired full clip, reloaded, and fired full clip again. That is 855 (base damage) * 1.5 (armor modifier) = 1282.5 damage. Given inaccuracy but also given an additional gatling, I believe that Crafeksterty's armor of 1045 is ensured dead in under twenty seconds.


Conclusion? If Mobula can stay inside the "uncontested shooting range" for twenty seconds, its two gatlings will break the armor. If the mortar gunner is good, the pyramidion will be dead.

Gameplay Conclusion? This is a real, valid tactic. I have a new Mobula build, thanks to Hamster IV. Sadly, I just spend today's GOIO time doing this math, so I cannot try it out today. However, I've had more fun than I would have if I played two/three matches with several fresh players. In fact, I'm scared that I enjoyed this too much. Thank you Hamster!

Now? I need to work on AP Chemistry. I hope to eventually figure put the composition of addictive, gooey, white stuff we put in our Chem Spray. Perhaps it is the legendary Zukasauce.

[SnaG]

Current pyra armor damage Goal: 1045 (This is the number you want to hit with damage to get the pyras armor down.)
Im saying that because buffed pyra armor is 845 i belive with +200 mallet repair. Not giving in the account for spanners.

Also correct me if im wrong.

As I understand pyramidion hull armour has 600hp currently.
The buff hammer provides a +30% hp buff.

Therefore buffed pyra hull armour should have 780hp.

The mallet allows an engineer to repair the hull every 9s for 250hp.

So if we assume the engineer is doing a perfect job and the hull is not suffering from any fire stacks an engineer could potentially repair 1000hp (4*250) within 40s (36s).

This would make your target dmg much higher, at 780hp +250hp per 9s of combat in order to take the pyra's hull armour down.

[Indreams]

I need to get some more updated datas then.

Are the Lusse's journal and Wilson's note (the in-game manuals) up to date? For real?

[Crafeksterty]

Thats the question. I havent looked into those books too much because they dont give all the info, and some may even be outdated info.

[Wundsalz]

And this is about it for now. Read through the calculations. If there are anybody willing, check my math.

Uhm, correct me if I'm wrong, but you haven't presented your calculations, have you?

Thats the question. I havent looked into those books too much because they dont give all the info, and some may even be outdated info.

Can you give an example of outdated Wilson note info, please?

[Dementio]

As I understand pyramidion hull armour has 600hp currently.
The buff hammer provides a +30% hp buff.

On this page http://gunsoficarus.com/gameplay/ships-3/ it says that Pyramidion armor is 650.

Thats the question. I havent looked into those books too much because they dont give all the info, and some may even be outdated info.

Can you give an example of outdated Wilson note info, please?

How do you check outdated info in the Wilson notes? It's one of the only thing we players can rely on. Unless you want to go through the effort of checking all the stats yourself through weapon damage on armor and stuff.