Ammo won't stay!

[Gorath]

I'm sure more than a few people have had this issue, but I don't see a post for it in the forums yet so I'll bring it up. I'm mostly just curious about how other people deal with it but also wonder if it will be patched:

When loading special rounds into the guns, you will notice that you must be seated in it with the rounds selected when the animation ceases or the ammo will not stay put. The reload will cycle back to "normal" if no one is there to give it input at the very end of the process. All fine and good, but I really wish the automated reloads would track the ammo being loaded into it and STAY. Just... just stay. It doesn't make sense to me, speaking in terms of the mechanics of the thing, that it would dump and reset the ammo. Is there a balance issue behind this?

It is a special, awful sort of evil to have your gun go empty of special rounds in the heat of battle, where you jump off to cover a key repair, and return to find that your gun has loaded normal rounds again. As a light flak gunner using heavy rounds, this is the bane of my existence 8C

Does anyone have any tips for dealing with this without having to squat on the gun during the reload process?

[N-Sunderland]

This thread is a bit out of place, since it isn't a bug. It's an intended mechanic. There isn't much of a means to avoid it. Just try to jump back on the gun right before the reload ends.

[Helmic]

Yeah, this belongs in feature requests or game discussion since it's a balance issue.  I'd like it to be changed as well, it'd make changing ammo in the first place more useful and make the gunner a bit more worthwhile.

[Pickle]

It's a balance issue, and no doubt done deliberately.

I'll disagree and say that I think the current mechanic should remain as it is.  Including the mechanic that causes your speciality ammunition to be unloaded if any non-AI crew member steps onto the gun.  This mechanic makes the crew-role of manning a gun important.

On any if my ships, if it gets to the point that the Gunner is involved in essential repairs - then it's already too late for him to be wasting time thinking about the right ammunition.  The Gunner is the violinist on the Titanic - he goes down shooting.  Unless the Captain tells him to do otherwise - the biggest problem I have with a Gunner is when he stops shooting and starts thinking for himself and wanders off from the gun I'm doing my damdest to keep pointing towards the enemy (that'a you gunner on a Pyra that thinks they should wander off to the side guns).  If your ship isn't shooting, it might as well be dead anyway.

[Helmic]

I'm going to have to disagree with you there.  There's reasons to leave a gun other than to repair something else - like getting on another gun.  Being able to switch ammos while doing that would provide a unique class feature to the Gunner without having to put a note somewhere in the Roles screen that Gunners get +10% damage or get exclusive access to this or that ammo.  It removes some of the risk of changing ammo, you're not risking going back to vanillas should you need to hop off your gun for a quick self-repair.  Can you imagine how much more useful the Gunner would be if he could change ammo AND repair his gun at the same time on something other than a Hwacha?

[Pickle]

Remember.. I like the Gunner role exactly as it is.  You're confusing me with a Gunner-hater that feels they need a buff to be meaningful.

Speciality ammunition confers advantages - one of the penalties for that is the mechanic on reloading.  Gunners need the game-intelligence to know when to trade-off a shot for a whack with a repair tool, and the game-knowledge to know whether they can achieve that during a reloading cycle (Hwacha) or must sacrifice absolute-DPS to do so (any other weapon).  They also need to have the instinct to know when to hit reload mid-clip or when to reload with a different ammunition type mid-clip.

Gunner is already perceived by too many as the idiot-class for those too thick/drunk to be an Engineer, so please Muse.. don't dumb it down any further.

[ATeddyBear]

This is kind of a gameplay question and suggestion in one. I put this in gameplay discussion since his final line is a question about dealing with the mechanic.

[RearAdmiralZill]

The Gunner is the violinist on the Titanic - he goes down shooting.

Quoted for truth and epicness.

I agree with Hubert. Its a deliberate mechanic to add to the gunner game that does not need changing to "buff" a gunner. Depending on weapon, you take the risk of getting vanilla rounds or waiting on another reload if you want to repair your gun. This way, they cant just auto reload and then run around repairing or man another gun only to return and have special rounds loaded for a kill.

As Hubert put it, they dont need "dumbing down". It takes a fair bit of tweaking to make guns operate at peak performance in situations, and the gunner gives that feel currently.

[Queso]

I still don't see much point in running anything but 3 engineers on any ship that isn't a junker or a galleon. I wouldn't mind a gunner buff like that myself.

[HamsterIV]

I see this mechanic as an engineer Nurf. The engineer is too powerful as it is. If they had the ability to start a load cycle with specialty ammo, run off and repair stuff, then come back to a gun with the proper ammo waiting for them, there would be even less reason to go gunner.

[Helmic]

An engineer nerf would refer to a change that made that role less useful, Hamster.  While you're right that they could do that, it wouldn't be as useful as it would be for a gunner who could actually start juggling ammo like his class ability implies he should be doing.

[HamsterIV]

It is not a change since it has always been there (at least while I have been playing) but it does make the engineer less useful. A gungineer has to decide if they should wait for the reload to complete before fixing a component. It makes them slower at repairing or slower at shooting. Without this mechanic the engineer would be even more useful compared to a gunner.

[Helmic]

It also means a gunner has to stay on his gun to finish loading its ammo instead of just hopping onto another gun and shooting it.  A gunner staying on one particular gun that isn't THE gun on the ship isn't playing to his full potential.  A gunner that can also risk mallet repairs is also one that doesn't have as great a need to be an engineer in the first place, that gun is much less likely to go down in the first place without the other ship specifically targeting that gun.  I can see a lot more strategies coming out of the ability for a single person to juggle guns and ammo than sitting in one place doing nothing waiting for ammo to load.

[RearAdmiralZill]

Not every gun loads as slow as a Hwacha.

[Helmic]

Every gun loads, though, and it gets in the way from dancing around the ship going from gun to gun like a prancing fairy battle-hardened machine of death.  Scrambling around the deck amplifies that feeling that everything is in this state of controlled chaos, the heart of the game's fun.

Let me put it this way; as it is right now, an engineer can repair something or buff his own gun during reloads, given a bit of skill.  A gunner, on the other hand, can at best shoot two Hwachas on a Galleon because those are two closely-placed heavy weapons with the longest reload in the game.  An engineer can already run off to do repairs during reloads so long he gets back in his seat in time, a gunner suffers a penalty for switching to a different gun (which would normally give him a big incentive to bring more than one ammo even if the guns themselves only benefit from one type) as outside a Hwacha Galleon it's impossible to keep two guns loaded with special ammo at once while firing them.

Everyone is going to be able to leave a gun, yes, but the gunner will have an overall great effect with his guns versus the gungineer who can't make use of the new tactics with just his single ammo type.  As for regular engineers, they'll be dealing with the effects of those improved gunners.