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Huge New Ship And Weapon Suggestion Topic
omegaskorpion:
--- Quote from: Ceresbane on January 05, 2015, 04:56:14 pm ---
--- Quote from: omegaskorpion on January 04, 2015, 05:18:25 pm ---
--- Quote from: Ceresbane on January 04, 2015, 03:01:32 pm ---so the swan ship is a ship thats even slower than a galleon?
as for some of these ships... you're asking for new mechanics... assuming muse would just change the fundamental philosophy of the game.
like some of these ships are meant to be functioning with a 4 man crew?
--- End quote ---
Swan is the big green ship. its slightly faster than galleon, turtle is slower than galleon when it has its armors attached.
(galleon is still faster than junker ans spire so its not a slow ship)
The only ships that have new mechanics are Turtle witch has 2 addional armors and dragonfly wich has 60% more damage resistant balloon. I understand that thease maybe too much for the devs (or not, i dont know) but those addition make them unique compared to other ships.
All the ships are ment to be practical and working with 4 man crew, some of them have higher armor just because they are so big that crew has to run all over the ship to get to next component.
However, those big ships are still usable in canyon styled map.
--- End quote ---
the issue isn't creating these things.
its the balancing. Guns is like a family. Each ship by muse is like a child.
Papa muse ain't allowed to play favourites, everyone has the exact same wealth in ability but is all spent in different places. This is why the game is fairly balanced.
These new ships is like Papa muse went to the orphanage and got overpowered game changing children that completely fks up the given status quo.
I mean for crying out loud, it took muse 2 years to balance the ships and weapons as they are.
dramatic changes like this would take decades to properly balance, especially because of the new precedent you are applying to it with these new ships.
--- End quote ---
I can understand why new ships hast been made, but pyramidion has't been well balanced in 2 years, simply because it does everything so well (as a junker user im very pissed of that 3guns arent enaught to kill that thing) And Spire has been glass cannon and not much used too. (some use it but many find it too hard to use properly since it can die realy easy against faster ships)
I created these ships balance in mind, even tho they might be big and better armored they still suffer from low speed or just like SAI it does not have much fire power.
--- Quote from: TeddyBearMafia on January 05, 2015, 06:16:11 pm ---Problem with new ships is they have to actually, y'know, do something new without substantially breaking the game system. To use a parallel, it's like when Death Knights were added to WoW, and they completely screwed up the entire tanking metagame because they were immensely better at some things and incredibly worse at others. Adding a completely new asset which is only limited to ONE specific ship (like your Turtle idea) is a poor design decision unless every ship has its own special mechanic. This is to avoid entire strategies hinging on one particular gameplay mechanic and becoming far too shallow.
Thus, there is a limited space for new ships in GoIO in the current system as much as I'd like to see more of them made.
--- End quote ---
Sometimes specials work and sometimes they dont, i always comes to the balance and how well they are done (or how well they are tested).
That is exactly why turttle has low normal armor but good side armors, if enemy manages to destroy the main armor the ship and blow it up with some explosions its just like any other ship. It has same mechanics but has 2 extra components.
Dragonfly ins't realy special with its strong balloon since its armor is bad, and it is still vunerable to caronade and lumberjacks since its easy target.
I can understand that specials can broke stuff, however these ships dont have much new (even the armors in turttle are avoidable in fights).
However since these are just ideas, delopers can realy do what they want with them since my stats + ideas realy dont matter since they know their game better and can balance them better. However if some of these stats are good they can always test them with some players to see are they fitting to the game.
omegaskorpion:
--- Quote from: SirNotlag on January 05, 2015, 02:40:49 pm ---Hello again! :D
I always enjoy reading ideas for weapons and ships even if they are never added.
favourite ship has to be the dragon fly, it currently seems op with dual guns on front and back but if that where removed it or adjusted just right I feel like its unique and could have a place in the game. I have had ideas for a similar ship but never really refined it.
Turtle seems pretty neat too but the way it changes speed as it looses health is interesting but seems weird to me, I understand the reasons but the practicality and how it effects gameplay is hard to judge.
the other ships seem... I don't know like better versions of what is already in the game, or at least bigger.
As for the weapons
don't like the light cannon cause it does both pierce and explosive making for a boring and bad combination.
I don't think that a heavy piercing weapon is a good idea, it can be done but simply by adding a heavy piercing weapon you greatly change the dynamics of the game so it will have to be handled carefully.
the carronade already destroys balloon and components short range so the nailer has no job.
I like the crossbow.
Homing weapons can be fair if they are balance so I like those too
the heavy torpedo launcher is neat so I think something similar might work.
I like lasers and lighting for the sake of it being lasers and lighting :P
--- End quote ---
Dragonfly balance comes from its balloon and armor, balloon is strong and the armor is made out of paper.
Its guns can shoot every direction BUT since its huge thanks to its balloon, enemys can just stay over them or under them.
Also since most of the longer rainged guns dont have much rotation angle, you cant aim in the front or back if you use weapon like hades, mercury.
Even weapons like flamethrover inst good if shooting in the front or back since the balloon will keep enemys bit more further away, so the flames cant reach the target.
I think that Turttle is unique because of its abilities, how ever these abilitys are also its demise, when it has both armors its too slow and when it does not have them its too weak and with 1 armor its good if capten uses the armored side.
Its kinda funny idea but if it would ever get to the game, it would need allot of testing before that.
SAI is tecnicly pyramidions bigger brother, but its also slower and bit weaker since it does not have much more fire power, armor is good but since components are far away from eacother it can bring allot of stress to the engineers.
As for the other big ships, they are balanced by slow speed or turning speed. I dont realy want to make OP ships but unique ones.
Indreams:
Add a few new guns, and I'd like the turtle very much.
Pyramidion is the ramming ship because, well, it's the only ramming ship.
And Pyramidion isn't a really a ram ship either. It's more of a dual-front gun fighter plane.
Turtle could fill in a role as an alternative/dedicated ram ship. It's unique mechanic (which will need extensive balance testing) can make it a ram ship that gets more and more dangerous as it takes damage.
I really like that it only has one front gun. Pyramidion's two front guns makes it better to not ram. Turtle's heavy front platings, and thick broadside guns, makes it more desirable to ram.
I like it. I'd lighten the broadside guns. Maybe a light and a heavy. I'd be interested in what combinations would happen.
omegaskorpion:
--- Quote from: Indreams on January 06, 2015, 11:39:16 am ---Add a few new guns, and I'd like the turtle very much.
Pyramidion is the ramming ship because, well, it's the only ramming ship.
And Pyramidion isn't a really a ram ship either. It's more of a dual-front gun fighter plane.
Turtle could fill in a role as an alternative/dedicated ram ship. It's unique mechanic (which will need extensive balance testing) can make it a ram ship that gets more and more dangerous as it takes damage.
I really like that it only has one front gun. Pyramidion's two front guns makes it better to not ram. Turtle's heavy front platings, and thick broadside guns, makes it more desirable to ram.
I like it. I'd lighten the broadside guns. Maybe a light and a heavy. I'd be interested in what combinations would happen.
--- End quote ---
While the turtle could effectively ram the swan is more better in that role (or sai, Ikazuchi and Dragonfly since they are safer when ramming)
Since ship like Swan has 2 heavy guns in front it would make better support when ramming, of cource ship like turtle would also do the job but its speed and turning speed would hurt if ship misses.
also the less armored the turttle is, the less weight is has, witch would make it worser at ramming.
Indreams:
--- Quote from: omegaskorpion on January 06, 2015, 12:00:36 pm ---While the turtle could effectively ram the swan is more better in that role (or sai, Ikazuchi and Dragonfly since they are safer when ramming)
Since ship like Swan has 2 heavy guns in front it would make better support when ramming, of cource ship like turtle would also do the job but its speed and turning speed would hurt if ship misses.
also the less armored the turttle is, the less weight is has, witch would make it worser at ramming.
--- End quote ---
You are the ship designer, so what can I say?
I thought that the plow head on the turtle was the armor plates. I think you mean the armor plates are on the side. I think it'd be better if the armor plates were on the front. For the purpose of my ramming. I really want turtle to be the ramming ship.
A ship that tanks in, opens with a ram, and then gives a decent broadside.
I like Swan and Sai, but I don't think captains piloting it will actively ram. I think Swan and Sai will be like how Pyramdions are; scared of ramming because you will lose the gun-arc (of the primary guns).
Turtle really has potential. The new mechanic of separate armor is a brilliant idea that I think other ships can employ.
What if we replaced the port-angled side gun on the spire with an armor plating? Give it a tower shield to give it the much needed survivability? And can we see this armor plating mechanics on certain co-op bosses?
With the turning speed:
To me, part of ramming is getting punished when you miss. High maximum velocity, low acceleration. Plot an intersect course, accelerate, and hit like a ballista. A ramming ship should be like a projectile.
A perfect ramming ship would be weighty, fast, and maneuverable. But then, a perfect ramming ship would be overpowered. A light ship or a slow ship would be useless at ramming (Squid and Galleon). So a good balance is to make the ship less maneuverable.
An acrobatic, satisfying dodge should be the counter against ramming ships.
Again, I love the turtle. I'd like to see the plow-head be the armor plating. I'd love to see your new guns. I want to see a non-paired gun varieties. Whenever there is a single light gun, its a flame. Tesla and the Nail Gun are varieties I want to see.
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