It's The Clawwwwwww!

[Kamoba]

Yeah raising the damage puts its use into good habits you are only meant to be using it in bursts.

This ^

[Dementio]

Yeah raising the damage puts its use into good habits you are only meant to be using it in bursts.

So, you are saying that the phoenix claw isn't meant to be used to continuously turn the ship's guns into arc when somebody is continuously circling said ship?

I dunno.

[RearAdmiralZill]

Yeah raising the damage puts its use into good habits you are only meant to be using it in bursts.

So, you are saying that the phoenix claw isn't meant to be used to continuously turn the ship's guns into arc when somebody is continuously circling said ship?

I dunno.

That's exactly what I'm saying, in essence.

You have a team mate. There is a reason there isn't any 1v1 maps. Getting circled by an annoying squid? Your ally can help. Not "Aw well, better turn on claw"

[Dementio]

So you want to either have the phoenix claw to destroy engines or turn the ships less than before? Because this would screw with not only the Pyramidion, but a whole lot of other ships.
I am sharing Crafeksterty's opinion here, we should be presented with a reason to take that tool.

Maybe if the turning speed increase of Phoenix Claw gets lowered together with the horizontal top speed of a bunch of ships, to make the phoenix claw negletable, but also make circling not too easy. (Poor Galleon)

[RearAdmiralZill]

It'll be interesting to see what direction feels the best, either taking the kero or moonshine approach to it. To elaborate, do we make it always-on, but less turning power? Do we make it high-power, but only good for a limited burst? And im never wanting to make something useless, but im also not into requiring a tool to remain competitive at higher levels. Pilots should know what their ship can and can't do.

And now you see where my mindset is. Once claw stops making the turning speeds of ships x instead of their intended y, we can then see what ships need tweaking on the turning front, either by added acceleration or top speed. This is why I didn't like the goldfish changes that we were trying out with giving it increased turn speed. Claw made it silly.

[Crafeksterty]

I keep thinking 5 Second activation on activation. Or 10 second activation.

Personaly i keep using Claw in short bursts and do no damage. The best way (again imo) to use claw is fully turning the ship instead of just slight turns. And i mean 180s or 250 degree turns.
Problem is, people tend to use it for short turns and get no punishment for it. Even i do that, like i said, very short bursts.

In anycase, 10 seconds should make pilots wish they had more to turn for when they turned for just a little. Atleast a good reason to not have it if your not using it for long periods of times?

[Mysterious Medic]

One thing I've always liked about this game is that every ship *can* theoretically 1v1 any other ship with enough skill. Like, a blenderfish *can* take on a metamidion (despite being countered) if it knows how to handle a metamidion (back up a lot and pray to icarus your gunner knows how to take the balloon out from the front). However if some ships simply won out against others in 1v1's (squids constantly circling you with you having no ability to turn)I would simply not play that ship honestly. In pubs it's not like the communication is impeccable with your gunner pilot ally and in competitive you're expected even more-so to be able to hold your own. Piloting a pyra already feels like piloting a fat hunk of metal. It already feels slow and clunky. If your Phoenix claw nerf and what the devs are doing to its acceleration happens, I just won't have any joy piloting the damn thing anymore.

Edit: To clarify I do understand that is too powerful to the point of being necessary for all ships, and how it does not punish enough, but I just think it should be nerfed in a different way. I also understand that nerfing the pyras turning ability does not make it automatically lose, as it can back up to keep its guns in arc, but if the pyras acceleration is nerfed it won't be able to even do that. ( Don't take my moonshine backwards trick away from me devs pls)

[Arturo Sanchez]

Yeah raising the damage puts its use into good habits you are only meant to be using it in bursts.

So, you are saying that the phoenix claw isn't meant to be used to continuously turn the ship's guns into arc when somebody is continuously circling said ship?

I dunno.

You know there's more piloting maneuvers than just turning like a dog chasing its tail... you got hydro and kero to screw up your enemy. And in that instant use the claw to position for a counter.

Skills mate. strategy. It's like this game is based around these concepts or something.

If something doesn't work try something else. And once something works, you have to try something else anyway because the trick shouldn't work twice.

I'm seeing some very bad habits being projected in this thread. Lots of NO, everything must conform to exactly how I play to win.

[Dementio]

It cannot be avoided on every ship.

I don't think a Pyramidion would be able to out hydro or out kero a Squid or Goldfish, escpecially when kero/moonshine is used to move backwards, it will just be half as fast. It could possibly evade a Junker. A gat/mortar Pyra has then to break through the balloon, which means it is not going to kill anytime soon.
Moving forward to expose the engines is rarely an option.
Same for Galleons, it doesn't have many options and more often than not even phoenix claw is enough for that ship.
Spires probably have to fallback to the same phoenix claw option, especially with their glass cannon-like physique. If it manages to escape through hydro or chute, it will very likely still be outmanouvered the second the enemy gets on the same altitude, before escaping itself.


I see Hydrogen and chute vent more as a defensive, escape tool than as an offensive one. Only Gat/Mortar ships really profit from hydrogen to get an early height advantage, if used first.
Kerosene and Moonshine during combat is either range control or used to get the ship's own mass to do any damage or to use the mass to move another mass into a more favourable position.
Phoenix claw during combat enables you to keep your guns in arc against ships that are more manouverable than yours.

As the enemy ship uses hydrogen to escape, you will probably use hydrogen as well to get gun arcs back so you can continue killing.
If the enemy is too fast with kero/moonshine, you will probably use either tool to get back in range.

If the enemy uses a more manonuverable ship against yours, you use tools to compensate for the lack of manouverbility, how else do you win?


I do believe, if this wasn't the case, Squids and Junkers will have a tendency to always win against Pyramidions, Galleons and Spires in close range engagement. As it is now, less manouverable ships have a chance to fight back, some have it easier than others.