Main > General Discussion

Top pilots

<< < (13/29) > >>

Dutch Vanya:
I know it's all good fun to stroke each other's egos and all. But I just don't see very impressive piloting in competitive matches. I see the crews performing at much higher levels. However most pilots make just as many stupid mistakes. Like backing into walls... does no one look behind them when they reverse? This one example has cost plenty of competitive matches. (Other people are much better  at expressing their points though.)

Patched Wizard:
The whole nature of this topic is based upon the deeply personal nature of our opinions. We could never all agree on an accurate measure of a person's abilities or skill. Neither am I debating the need for a topic like this, I find these discussions amusing at best. However, I am debating Skrimskraw's and Crafeksterty's claims that "competitive is the only place to rank pilots" or "pub doesnt exactly allow skill".

Skrimskaw, you're absolutely entitled to your own opinions on who you regard as the "best pilot". You're also entitled to form that opinion from whatever source you deem as valuable to you. In no way am I trying to take those ideas away from you. But by assuming that because a pilot only plays in public games is somehow inferior to a pilot who plays in competitive games I would say that the only person you're limiting is yourself.

Crafeksterty, there are indeed too many variables to perfectly evaluate a person's "skill". But this idea is not solely for the public scene but it applies for the entire game of 'Guns of Icarus'. It is impossible to fully comprehend the entirety of a person's skill due to the inherent imbalance of the game at its core. The asymmetrical design, maps, spawn locations, variable cloud cover, dust storms, winds, ships, weapon loadouts, gunner ammo types, captain tools, engineer tools, engineers, gunners, pilots, etc, all of these factors introduce "too many" variables to ever accurately measure a person's abilities. Even in the competitive circuit this holds true. And all of this without ever needing to assess the human element that is also wildly open to a barrage of inconsistencies.

Like any debate about who is the best "x" throughout history there are too many variables to ever definitively know.

I will admit that in my own personal opinion I value the abilities needed to operate in the public theatre more than the strategy of the competitive stage simply because I operate more in the public sphere. Going back to what nanoduckling said, "it depends on the skill you are looking for". In a pub game there are just some high level competitive players that I would not want as an ally because I know that they cannot handle the wild inconsistencies of a pub game. But in a competitive game they would be the ones I would want beside me. This idea works in reverse for pub pilots too.

For me personally, the measure of a captain's, pilot's, engineer's, or gunner's abilities is not based on how they can perform in the perfect conditions but instead how they perform in the imbalanced conditions. Can they pull a victory from almost certain defeat? Can they stand under the pressure of unfair odds? In life you will never have a balanced fight or war. There will always be imbalance in favour of one side. For me, what I value is the ability to recognise the imbalance and to use all the resources available to you to overcome those unfair odds.

I watched one game once, where a goldfish with an average level pilot and a mobula with a low level pilot faced off against a pyramidion with a high level pilot and a galleon with an average level pilot. At first the goldfish and mobula were ripped to shreds as the pyramidion and galleon tore through them over and over. The mobula always out of position and the goldfish's crew unable to handle the engineering strains put on them. The match was 0-4 in favour of the pyramidion and galleon but I watched as the pilots on the goldfish and mobula started to close up the weaknesses in their game. They rallied their novice crews, forging them into barely functioning units. They assessed their opponents and themselves and then reengaged on their own terms. I watched this for 40 minutes as they clawed their way back from a 0-4 situation and pulled a 5-4 victory from a battle that should have been finished in 6 minutes. You could never convince me that this wasn't a match of skill or ability simply because it was fought in a public arena.

The defining nature of public games for me is the ability to create victory from nothing.


ps. "If a good pilot crumbles in pub because he has random pub crew, that just means his crew wasnt good enough to support it." Crafeksterty, this is wrong because it is based on the illogical idea that somehow a "good pilot" is immune to error.

ps. "If you think pilots that solely play pubs are comparable in terms of skill with the top competitive ones you're delusional." Mezhu, if someone practiced their skills in public games it may mean that statistically they will be on average not as good as competitive players, but it doesn't mean that such a feat is impossible.

ps. Stop writing so many replies! I can barely keep up with all the comments!

/end

Skrimskraw:
I know pubs can be a place of finding talents, most of my team was recruited through random pub games. I am not denying that you can find talented pilots in pub games, but in the end the only way to rank people is through competitive play. My list is basicly a shoutout to good pilots that deserve recognition for what they have achieved.

nanoduckling:
"in the end the only way to rank people is through competitive play" - Skrim, no matter how many times you say this it still wont be true unless you qualify the statement to make it subjective. There is no 'only way' when it comes to subjective preferences. I don't know how else to explain it to you. No one is criticizing your list, folks are just pointing out there are other ways to make lists than yours.

Crafeksterty:
I find that and the explenation difficult to grasp. I can understand there can be a hardboil play going on in pubs, but it wont match up to what competetive will offer.

This is my belief:
When a pilot that is extremely good in pub wants to fly competetively for the first time, the odds are against him versus an allready set competetive team.
When this pilot continues competetive he will become better and he will come out stronger in pub play.

Regarding Patched Wizard:

--- Quote ---"If a good pilot crumbles in pub because he has random pub crew, that just means his crew wasnt good enough to support it." Crafeksterty, this is wrong because it is based on the illogical idea that somehow a "good pilot" is immune to error.
--- End quote ---

Not it at all. You just mentioned the opposite. Im saying that the pilot cant do much if the crew dont do their thing. If a good pilot has bad crew, he cant do his thing. If a good pilot has good crew =/= immune to error, it just means he can now make the ship perform well. If he does errors thats an error by the pilot. But thats a complete different thing. Im talking about how the ship cannot do what the pilot intended the ship to do with crew who cant make that happen. If the pilot is succesfull or not is a story afterwards.

And the other thing was the comparisement of inconsistencies. Not just inconcistencies.

There will be more inconsistencies in pub games than there will be in competetive. Weve all seen random stuff happen in competetive, but there is so much more inconsistencies in pub. So much that its just not worth measuring or properly spectate. There is a better reason to stream competive matches versus Pub matches because what is going on is much more obviously translated and understandable than pub matches where the Variables go beyond just game elements but also heavily on player gameplay discrepencies. Like using a mallet on rebuilding...

Why would i honour myself for killing a ship that has an engie that does that?!

I dont GG on 5-0 because im afraid of the other team leaving. I just wanna play but i seem to beat them down like crazy. Then they leave. What if my crew leaves, oh shit now i have to expect someone worse than the previous crew that cant listen or dont know what a heavy weapon is. Now im at the other end of 5-0.

Navigation

[0] Message Index

[#] Next page

[*] Previous page