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sparklerfish:
Can we come out and say what everyone is thinking but hasn't actually said?
Matchmaking, enforced removal of people from lobbies, and all of these other "balance" changes serve the needs of newer/novice players to the detriment of more experienced players.
Experienced players get frustrated and play less often or just refuse to play in pub matches. This makes a smaller pool to draw from for matchmaking, making it serve our needs even LESS well.
Instead of giving us back the control we used to have to construct matches, more control is removed to help offset the failings of matchmaker to meet our needs.
I don't need a system to tell me if a match is balanced or not. I've played enough to know. I don't need a system to tell me when a lobby is failing and needs to be abandoned. I can tell when everyone is leaving.
You're losing your biggest supporters by making these unpopular changes and no amount of regurgitated statistics is going to change the fact that people are having unsatisfactory experiences. You can't sit back and say, "well, you're wrong about not having fun, because the numbers say otherwise."
Caprontos:
--- Quote from: sparklerfish on November 11, 2014, 06:35:20 pm ---Can we come out and say what everyone is thinking but hasn't actually said?
--- End quote ---
I'm not thinking that.
Honestly I think I've been less frustrated with match maker then I was with the old match list. It isn't prefect, but it does a decent job for where its at. It is a bit different then I expected it to be..
I also certainly find a lot more games now then before. I can play a game in the time it use to take to find a game... So that alone is a nice change. and yes I have fun in most of the lobbies (from either system).
Maybe its cause I play mainly engi, and not pilot/gunner so I don't have to deal with a lot of things idk. I can see a lot of issues with match maker for pilots, and some for gunner that engi doesn't really need to deal with.. Maybe I am having better results then others and.. my luck will run out haha- or my standards to have fun are lower..
Also I feel all the people saying "I need a custom game to have a fun experienced lobby" .. Its always been that way really. It was rare to find an actually balanced high skill lobby with the match list. You had to plan for it and manually set it up to do it most of the time.
As for just fun lobbies (no experience required), idk that depends on you I guess. I can't decide whats fun for someone else.
Basically, I don't think match maker is a lot different to the match list, its a change sure but the outcome to me isn't much different. Regardless if I play with friends or random lobbies..
The biggest change is instead of picking a lobby I want, a lobby is picked for me.. but then I can always leave and try again if its really bad.. So I can still pick.. Sorta like the match list where I remember just jumping from game to game down the list, trying to find one that didn't suck.. Sometimes not finding one at all.. Though I've opted to leave once in maybe 20 games since the hotfix with match maker for a better lobby.
I am not trying to arguing your point of view/opinion btw, and I know a bunch of people who agree with you an that's fine, muse should be aware there are people who feel how you do.. So they can try to address everyone's issues/concerns and make things something most people are happy with.., but if we are just saying how we feel about it match maker currently "but didn't say it", then I can say to right? Even if it's a bit different..
Also I want to add.. I wasn't for match maker before - from the start when they said they wanted to do it, but when I decided to play again after a vacation, and learning they did it.. I decided to play with it, with an open mind and not be to judgmental about it.. and I think they proved it can be a good thing, imo.
I think it needs work in some areas, but they can't improve it instantly.. I hope in a month or two its improved and I hope match maker leads to more new people sticking around...
If it does make the community grow, then match maker will be their best update. If it doesn't then.. history will laugh at you muse.. maybe.. I really hope match maker is giving new players better and more experiences then the match list did.. If they stay we will have a lot more experienced people to play with in time..
Anyways that's enough opinion from me, I will put my suggestions for how to improve match maker in there own topics, as they come up if they don't already have one.. or maybe an email..
I wish I could just make short posts.. :P
sparklerfish:
Sorry to claim to speak for you Caprontos; I know I don't speak for everyone, just trying to articulate a view I think a lot of the people posting share.
--- Quote from: Caprontos on November 11, 2014, 09:09:16 pm ---Basically, I don't think match maker is a lot different to the match list, its a change sure but the outcome to me isn't much different. Regardless if I play with friends or random lobbies..
The biggest change is instead of picking a lobby I want, a lobby is picked for me.. but then I can always leave and try again if its really bad.. So I can still pick.. Sorta like the match list where I remember just jumping from game to game down the list, trying to find one that didn't suck.. Sometimes not finding one at all.. Though I've opted to leave once in maybe 20 games since the hotfix with match maker for a better lobby.
--- End quote ---
At least with a lobby list you could hop around until you found a lobby that looked like it would be suitable rather than gambling each time with the matchmaker. I could know exactly which lobbies I'd looked in and who was in them and determine if there was one I thought would provide me with a good match.
shaelyn:
hmmmmm.
I stand somewhere in the middle. I've gotten used to matchmaker and getting what I want out of it...or rather, working around it. if I actually used the matchmaker, solo'd it, I'd probably still hate it. but right now, with a few tweaks to crew form to make it easier to fly with my clan, and matchmaking and I get along well enough.
my experience, though. overall, the 3 rematch thing is an inconvenience; I don't find it a huge deal. however, installing that limitation is really just treating a symptom of a bigger problem: this community was not ready for matchmaking. we don't have enough players to support it. that's the real reason we're having balance and/or speed issues.
so I guess what I want to know is, when we're big enough that matchmaker can finally balance matches as intended, will the limitations be lifted? or are there any alternate options for the interim?
and the uber important stuff that I doubt there's an answer for right now: when will we be big enough? and how long will it take to get there?
Hoja Lateralus:
@sparklerfish
--- Quote from: sparklerfish on November 11, 2014, 06:35:20 pm ---Can we come out and say what everyone is thinking but hasn't actually said?
Matchmaking, enforced removal of people from lobbies, and all of these other "balance" changes serve the needs of newer/novice players to the detriment of more experienced players.
--- End quote ---
Don't want to be rude but I did mentioned it few times :D
i.e.
--- Quote from: Mr.Disaster on October 27, 2014, 01:42:33 pm ---I think the hiding levels thing is another example of Muse catering to greenhorns rather than veterans. Because it protects greenhorns from their low status (for a short amount of time) but also "protects" them from any advices more experienced players may give. It protects noobs from veterans, but veterans can't protect themselves from noobs APART from password games. And many experienced players say that pub matches are terrible and if you want a good game you have to go as far away as you can from pubs. And it's true. Muse doesn't protect its' veterans and veterans will be lost one after another.
--- End quote ---
Rest of your post - I completely agree. Personally I play like 30% of the time I used to play in 1.3.7 and mostly with custom lobbies or at least crew of friends.
@shaelyn
--- Quote from: shaelyn on November 11, 2014, 11:21:41 pm ---if I actually used the matchmaker, solo'd it, I'd probably still hate it.
(...)
this community was not ready for matchmaking. we don't have enough players to support it. that's the real reason we're having balance and/or speed issues.
--- End quote ---
Pretty much this. Agreed. I actually always thought that lobbies are fine system, but just we don't have enough players for it to work comfortably well.
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