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Version 1.3.8 Hotfix Release Notes

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Keyvias:
No matter what happens in our system will there be edge cases on balance?  Definitely, same as the old system or any balance system.

No we won't put a players glicko2 score on next to their name, that's something we do not want players to focus on going up or down. Imagine if your ally tried something different and lost (like me in a close range spire) you'd blame and fixate on your loss of score. It'd push down experimental builds and make players play safer.

This brings me to my main point, as I mentioned in another thread, (that Wundsalz quoted from)
There are many legacy features hurting out balance right now.
If we can all agree to Wundsalz recommendation, we will happily strip down the system of the flex features and have a much more balanced match system. That's what it comes down to.
If the concern is balance, we are more than happy to focus 100% on balance.
We can make a system that does not allow glicko2 scores outside of x deviations to play with each other and even break up players into brackets (gold, silver, bronze) and have only them fight each other, but it will force us to remove many of the fex options.

We have Wundsalz's vote for a system like that (and that was my vote at the start of matchmaking 6 months ago)
Where does everyone else stand?

sparklerfish:
I'm gonna throw in my vote for not removing the flexibility options.  Balance is not what makes the game fun.  Teamwork and social interaction are what make the game fun, and make it so very different from other online games.  Winning and losing aren't the be-all, end-all or whether a match was fun -- playing with people who talk to me and that I enjoy working with determine whether or not a match is fun.  Maybe if the playerbase were big enough to make lobbies in which the glicko score deviation were lower, I would be more inclined to agree that the balancing works, but I am going to be useless as a level 44 gunner on a ship with a level 1 pilot who never gives me gun arcs, even if I technically raise the average glicko rating of my team.  the way it works now is frustrating and I literally ONLY friend join or crew form now to ensure I'll play a match that I'll actually enjoy, which actually means I interact less with new players and make fewer new friends, but since I no longer have the option to lobby-hop and see what's out there I don't have much of a choice.

GurasOguras:
I usually do not take part in the discussions of this community, but when do, then I really have a reason to break my laziness either language barriers.

A lot of people would agree, that this is the worst patch released ever. Muse has already reached the point where they want to introduce something new to the game, but they had a lack of ideas, so they started to introduce everything just to show off, that they are doing something. I know this is not true, but that is just how it looks like for me. The whole idea of ​​the matchmaking system was somehow not very necessary, because while matchmaking should balance the lobby and help people find matches to the appropriate level of challenge, it is doing exactly the opposite. (It should be also noted here that the ability get into friends lobby completely destroys the system)

Several people have written here, that forgot to make a screenshot. Fortunately, I make screenshots at least 20 per day :P Here's how matches look right now:

Players who left were mainly lvl 1-4

I really appreciate, that Muse have released today's patch. Without some bug fixes the game was just unable to play. But please FFS When you're trying to fix or improve something you're also making a lot of shit behind you! Why can't we swap to other team's ship? Oh, actually we can! You can easily bounce quickly through spectator slot in less than 0.5 second, so why we can't do it directly? I have no idea why it was introduced. Swapping to other team slot is just little more pain in the ass, but still if you want to do it, you will! Same story with hiding people's levels. If someone really want to play on the better team he will click on every single player, and then assess whether he wants to be on this team, or bounce through spectator to other. Perhaps Muse wanted to encourage people to cooperate with the assigned crew, but now it just makes people leaving lobby more willingly. And also finally WHY matchmaking system is not based upon player's level!? We are leveling up now without achievements, so I finally received what I wanted - My level reflects my experience! Of course, this does not take the theory, tactics knowledge etc. but it is a clear indicator of my in-game experience and time I've putted into this game to polish my engineering or piloting skills. But why now thankfully to all those "MMR" points I am constantly playing with lvl 1-4 greenhorns, whos level of skills and knowledge makes them unworthy "hold a candle" to me. And if losing games will tell system, that I am not good enough player to play with higher levels, then I will never get out of here. Of course why I will be losing matches? Because You can't win alone in co-op based game!

KitKatKitty:
     The forums are all about getting the opinions of the community. In this game, above many other games, the community is the most important. You have a game where IF you do not have a good, solid, supportive community, you will no longer have a game. Or at least a game people want to play. This community is based upon players being able to communicate and player WELL with each other and to retain players. Without player retention the game grows weaker and more people will leave. I've been in this game for about a year and a half. I start when there was not many players on during any given time (60-80 players) and it was the veterans of the game that made me interested enough to stay. They had so much passion for this game and the community. Spring of this year the game flourished and we were seeing massive numbers of players on (200-400 players), clans were growing quickly, competitive play was high and the community was active. Since then there has been a drastic drop off of players starting this fall and again the numbers are low (50-70 players during slower times, 90-120 players during active times on the weekends). This is because many players are bored and wanting new content. There are a large number of new players...yet not many on them are retained and a lesser number of them are willing to listen to veteran players.
     You listened to the community, Tropo specifically, and added the Captain Recommended Load outs!!! THIS WAS MUSE DOING IT RIGHT! Listening to the community and creating something that works well and benefits game play. Other things you listened to the community on where the fixed in the 1.3.8 Hotfix of being able to see the ships on the re-spawn map and the invisible wall on Canyons.
     The 1.3.8 and 1.3.8 Hotfix have seemed to get many people in the community very vocal. Most of them being the Veterans of the game. This is because the Veterans are the ones that have made this game what it is. They have stayed in the game for 1+years. They have worked hard and put in literally 2,00 - 4,000 hours into playing this game...that's 83-166 DAYS in the last year or 2. THAT is A LOT OF TIME! So when they are getting "aggressive" "hostile" "angry" on the forum over these updates, there is a good reason for it and it's not just because they want to "nit pick". It is because they LOVE this game, LOVE the community, and as much as MUSE doesn't want to see this game die off, they don't either. I've read this whole forum post. What is looks like to me are 2 sides of a civil war inside of Guns. 1 side the veterans and the players trying to give feed back, yet some frustrated and angry. On the other side the representatives of MUSE, that want us to believe that these things are for the better but not actually having open conversations.
     Neither side completely right, neither side completely wrong. And in order for this game to NOT DIE (yes this game will die, just like games similar to it like Hawken, if the community and developers don't work together).
     The developers gave us the match making system because a lot of the community was complaining about the unbalance lobbies and the long lobby times. When this was in Dev App, many players stated their concerns for the current system and asked for it to be improved more before release. That didn't happen.

--- Quote ---Let's say you're in the top 2% of the glicko2 score.  Your ability to win consistently in many situations makes you a high rated player.  Let's say you matchmake and there are 20 people in the queue and all the other games are either full or in-progress. In this situation you'll be match with probably the lesser players on your side to make the match as close to fair as possible. Does this mean you'll lose more than if you could join any lobby and find one with a more favorable situation? It does.
You can't have balance and be a very good player and not be match with lower allies (when you don't crew form or friend join.) Mathematically, it just doesn't work.
--- End quote ---

The players were complaining in 1.3.7 because they kept getting in lobbies with players that where either lower or higher level than them and "Pup Stomping" would take place which is bother frustrating for the higher level players that would have easy wins and the lower level players that would lose over and over with no chance of even learning the way the game should be played because they'd get killed so fast. This glicko 2 match making system has NOT helped this problem. Yes I understand how it works and why it was thought to be a good thing to implement, so please don't respond with that info. The type of system that the players of this game was looking for was one that would put higher levels with higher levels and lower levels with lower levels and the mid range players would be thrown into the mix no either side. With the understanding that the leveling system wasn't showing the "true" skill of the player, MUSE created the new Leveling system. WHICH I ACTUALLY THINK WILL WORK! Muse implemented the new leveling system to help create more balanced lobbies....but the system chosen to create the "balance" lobby is not the right one for this game.

The other reason that MUSE added the match making system was due to wait time in lobby...supposedly they were getting a lot of complaints about "Lobby of Icarus". Like Keyvias mentioned earlier this system was supposed to fix this. But It really hasn't. Yes, In the actual lobby there is only a limited amount of time players can stay in that lobby before the game starts automatically. BUT now if you have 4+ players in crew formation that you want to play with, you sit in que for 20+ mins (I have timed this on multiple occasions). Obviously when there are 150-200 players on the time is maybe only 10 mins but when it's the week days, since many players have left the game and there are only 50-80 players on during those times the que can be even higher than 20 mins). So instead of "Lobbies of Icarus" we now have "Que of Icarus" and frankly I would much rather sit in "Lobbies of Icarus". "Lobbies of Icarus" is one of the things that made this community what it is. Players know each other on a personal level because of these lobbies. When you jump on a game because you actually know they players and want to play with them THAT is an amazing community. Many of the players have met each other in real life, some players have started relationships with each other, many many of the players go and play other games in between the time they play GOIO and that is all because the lobbies are what made the players able to talk to one another and form bonds.

With the low player base...there will never be a system that removed the long waits and frankly some players don't want that removed.

Suggestion:
1) Keep the new leveling system implemented in 1.3.8 but create a match making system that puts higher levels with higher levels and lower level with lower levels. Keep the ability for us to see what matches our friends are in cause that is a good feature.
2) Put the levels back in from of the players names in lobby...that was silly. We can still see every ones levels in their profile and in chat. All it did was make players take 1 extra step to see if it would be a "Pup stomp" or not. If you go with my recommendation in #1, your claim of Veteran players leaving lobbies will actually stop.
3) Make the timed lobbies a preference that can be chosen. Similar to how swap lobbies was. This way the players that want to jump in a game and start quickly can CHOOSE "timed lobbies" but the players that maybe having a really fun time with friends or clan practice or clan vs clan matches or any other reason why people may want to stay in lobby longer can so choose.

So please...MUSE and the Community of Guns> WE NEED TO WORK TOGETHER!

HamsterIV:

--- Quote from: Keyvias on October 27, 2014, 02:19:03 pm ---So let me talk on hiding the levels and let me be frank.

They're wrong and they make players wrong.

--- End quote ---

Here here. My levels were adjusted poorly when the latest patch was implemented, and I was forced to send a strongly worded email to Muse. I don't want people to judge be by some artificial number sitting next to my name, and try as I may I can't help but judge people by the same criteria when I see that number next to their name. For a game that gives you no special ability beyond a fancier hat for leveling up, the whole community has acquired an unhealthy obsession with these numbers.

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