Info > Release Notes
Version 1.3.8 Hotfix Release Notes
Keyvias:
I never stated we're happy with the system as is. We've had a bunch of meetings on improving the system and some awesome players have even come up with ideas that preserve flexibility while helping the matchmaker see it's thing. Ie. check out Omniraptor's idea.
Are we happier with this system than with the match list? Definitely. It's statistically better in a lot of ways and conquers a lot of the old issues we had.
Does this mean it's perfect and we're never touching it ever again? Definitely not.
I mean we're still looking at the change that happened to the engineer with the buff to the flamethrower making chem spray rotations a big part of the game. Nothing is ever "done" we always want to ask ourselves the cause, effect, and a way to improve the game.
If I seem brisk it's simply because "I don't like it take it away" isn't really solid feedback for us to build off of. I can't argue with anecdotal evidence. If you had unbalanced or slow matchmaking experiences, I won't say it didn't happen, but I will say it's not the characteristic experience of the system, especially compared to the old system.
This isn't to say I am not listening to negative comments, but the constructive ones have definitely been given a lot more consideration
To give an example of negative Feedback that I've appreciated:
"I do not like playing with novices all the time because training can be a lot of work."
We went overboard with some time and flexibility options when some players have talked about balance being more important to them
"We want transparency on how the system works (numbers wise)"
Those are the three I remember going off the top of my head and glancing through the posts. Here's the meetings I've had and we talked about those things.
1. More strict novice division from vets. A lv 40 + a lv 1 =/= a lv 20 + a lv 20, no matter the glicko score due to the lv 1 needing to have experience. We spotted some weaknesses behind the scenes on some of the matchmaker logic and we're going to work on improving that.
2.Some flex features may go away or be adjusted to make the system a little stricter on balance to give better matches.
3. A leaderboard was always planned to give you a general idea of where you are, like gold, silver, ect league. It was planned to replace the levels on the side of the lobby, but since the levels were being used in a terrible way they were removed before the leaderboard was finished.
Also if I missed yours it's more because there's a lot of conflicting voices at the moment and frustrating to comb through everything.
GeoRmr:
Don't take away my levels damnit.
We like the levels. We've earned the levels. You've already devalued them by unlinking them from the achievements - don't make it worse.
https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,5002.0.html
Schwalbe:
--- Quote from: Keyvias on October 29, 2014, 11:28:53 am ---If I seem brisk it's simply because "I don't like it take it away" isn't really solid feedback for us to build off of. I can't argue with anecdotal evidence.
--- End quote ---
Yes, I understand that, and I'm aware that mostly I give "feedback" like this. I'm not proud of it, because I let myself being too driven by my negative emotions.
--- Quote ---If you had unbalanced or slow matchmaking experiences, I won't say it didn't happen, but I will say it's not the characteristic experience of the system, especially compared to the old system.
--- End quote ---
If you like numbers so much, take a look just on the number of players telling you that they experienced such. And take the multiplifier of the fact, that such matches happen not just often, they happen constantly.
When an event happens so often it becomes a clue that such occurences are characteristic of the spoken system. Therefore I must disagree.
--- Quote ---To give an example of negative Feedback that I've appreciated:
"I do not like playing with novices all the time because training can be a lot of work."
--- End quote ---
For you it's a negative feedback, for us this is one of the main reasons for giving such feedback. It's not like we don't like to teach others how to play, but FFS, not EVERY SINGLE MATCH. And I suppose that after putting GOIO on sell this will be way more disturbing, as an incredibly big amount of newbies will come...
--- Quote ---We went overboard with some time and flexibility options when some players have talked about balance being more important to them
"We want transparency on how the system works (numbers wise)"
--- End quote ---
Somehow I think this wasn't what they meant, although none shall disagree that you are putting much effort in your game. The thing is, that this efforts go in vain in case of matchmaker working like this. But to be honest - I will stop my argument right here, only because I do not know how many of those you've talking with have spoken here by far.
--- Quote ---Those are the three I remember going off the top of my head and glancing through the posts. Here's the meetings I've had and we talked about those things.
1. More strict novice division from vets. A lv 40 + a lv 1 =/= a lv 20 + a lv 20, no matter the glicko score due to the lv 1 needing to have experience. We spotted some weaknesses behind the scenes on some of the matchmaker logic and we're going to work on improving that.
--- End quote ---
Really? I mean - really? You guys really made such claim? Well then I'll say, that even some of the 40 lvl now captains =/= 40 lvl now captains. Rather rarely, it's just the example that even with the most reduced case of the theory such statement is not always true.
--- Quote ---2.Some flex features may go away or be adjusted to make the system a little stricter on balance to give better matches.
3. A leaderboard was always planned to give you a general idea of where you are, like gold, silver, ect league. It was planned to replace the levels on the side of the lobby, but since the levels were being used in a terrible way they were removed before the leaderboard was finished.
--- End quote ---
2. No offence sir, after recent patch I have the right not to trust you at this issue and I know you are propably forbidden to say more.
3. Leaderboard can endanger the community as it is now - previously players where hunting achievements, after putting leagues in there is a great chance, that the tendency to cursing newbies will be even more harsh to everyone, because if the one part of the command chain is weak, the risk of getting shot down is terribly increased, so it forces a cooperation of sort. I mean - you guys plan things without analysing both sides of the medal (if such proverb in english exists), or even the third or fourth one.
--- Quote ---Also if I missed yours it's more because there's a lot of conflicting voices at the moment and frustrating to comb through everything.
--- End quote ---
It might be some sort of paranoia, but it seems you guys try to answering only those who agrees with changes of some part. I can understand that. What I can't understand is the feedback of those who do not agree with you, REPORTS WHY we assume the system is broken (or reject those because "our marvellous, divine work makes good job") and try to suggest more or less reasonable solutions.
About hiding levels.
Leave them as they were before hotfix.
All the explanation why was displayed before. If people feel proud of what they achieved, why the blood soaked hell takin' it away? Yes, I noticed those explanations why, but all of those by far seem too far-fetched (I don't mean to offend anyone now, just saying out my feelings) for my sense of logic.
--- Quote ---You've already devalued them by unlinking them from the achievements - don't make it worse.
--- End quote ---
It may be surprising to you, but I completely agree with GeoRMR. The previous means of leveling where interesting, more requiring alternative to classic experience based leveling. If the reason behind that system was to make level indicator showing some actual earned skill - it was more or less fitting that one. Yeah, of course there were achieve-hunting, but it wasn't very-very-bad in my opinion. It's not like I'm saying that new system is worse but... I don't know. I don't feel getting XPs is so exciting like, for example, getting the third level after your fourth match as a pilot, because you did so well and got those achievements. Just saying.
Keyvias:
@Schwalbe
If you don't trust us, then nothing I say is really going to solve that.
It's not a forbidden to say more, it's more we're looking at it at the moment and I don't want to say we're going to do one thing, switch it at the last moment and do another. I could tell you every thing we're looking at, but I don't really want feedback on the ideas since they're just that, ideas, untested and untempered. Having an opinion war on everything that goes through the idea pile would be massively time consuming. (We already fight amongst ourselves enough on ideas.)
As far as achievements, they were... bad and I dislike any system that has players who have put in 2000 hours not being or higher than 12 (which happened before.) As far as making Xp more exciting that'd definitely something we can work on.
As far as the level example it was a snap hyperbole explanation of the weaknesses of novices. As far as lv 40 as the example it's because it was the quickest way to explain it saying 1800 glicko2 score doesn't mean as much.
As for why I don't type back on a lot of the more negative feedback?
Because I don't have anything constructive to say back.
GeoRmr:
--- Quote ---As far as achievements, they were... bad and I dislike any system that has players who have put in 2000 hours not being or higher than 12 (which happened before.) As far as making Xp more exciting that'd definitely something we can work on.
--- End quote ---
Well, that's the system that you originally made. Why are you now punishing the players who did put that time into it by hiding the progress that they earned?
As a redeeming idea, Why not release a few more profile badges or some other cosmetic element for completionists to display after they finish all the achievements in a class?
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