Problems with matchmaking

[Schwalbe]

^ Greenbreeze, so much amen in one post. I owe ya a beer. Or a whole keg.

[Hoja Lateralus]

If 90% of comments say 'it's bad change it', it's not necesserily bad. It's just people are very vocal when it comes to the game not meeting their expectations, be them logical or not.
On the other hand, even proponents of the matchmaking system like me tend to focus on the perceived negatives of the system rather than praise and congratulate muse on their efforts.

Realistically, so far all the complaints of the game becoming 'antisocial' and statements of the sort 'imma delete it' (nothing new, same exaggeration and tears every patch) have mostly been without basis. Your friends are still there, the means of joining them as well. Stop whining already about how special you are and how you want the game to remain the exact same for the next 3 years. Could we turn the focus back on the actual issues of matchmaking and ways of improving it?

You're completely mistaken. At least. We all have specific problems with current patch and we state what are they and why we think they are bad. If matchmaker puts me only in matches that end up with 5:0, with a crew with at least two gunners and people who played <50 games then it's not "my opinion" - it's just a fact that the system, the matchmaker, doesn't work (as planned). Also that since new patch I played 3v3 literally ONCE (4v4? Pff, dream) although I always choose 3v3 option and play ONLY in prime time hours (be it 8-12 pm GMT+1 as Steam stats says). With previous system I had 3v3s and 4v4 all the time. And more or less balanced games. And most of them relatively quick (5 minute is agreeable time to wait) because I could look at the lobby and hop in when it's somewhere around 12-14/16. Previous system for me worked relatively well and the reasons it didn't work was mostly single individuals fucking things up (nothing changed here drastically) or small amount of people in the game (which hasn't changed AT ALL).
Also as many pointed out the hiding level thing only make us do more clicks to find out. It achieved nothing apart from frustrating the players. There's a proverb - don't fix it if it ain't broken (in my country we say "Don't fix the watch that goes well/ shows correct hour").

[Mezhu]

As if the lobby system wasn't problematic, kek. Improving and adding to the game is not "fixing what's not broken". Try providing actual feedback and suggestions instead of whining and asking for reverts. I don't disagree with the points you make, I've written my opinions on the same issues quite a few times as well- I just despise the model post that you and many others are so eager to copy-paste every new patch: 'I will delete game'.

Well go fucking ahead. The fact you've played the game for however long you have doesn't entitle you to determining its' development goals and standards. You can share your opinion, as does everyone else, and it probably does have a higher impact than that of a relatively newer player. However, expecting the developers to instantly go by it simply because you said so isn't just plain arrogant, it's stupid.

[Schwalbe]

It was problematic sometimes, aye. But it was not broken.

The Matchfaker IS broken. Maybe for devs it works well, but not for players who experienced what was previous.

[impydog]

The Matchmaking system has been less fun for me than lobby hunting.
Glicko and player levels don't reflect the two main things I look for in friends on GoI:
1.  Personality
2.  Microphone use

My clan (DAGZ) is not geared toward competitive play (i.e.- tournaments).  We enjoy  playing with a wide variety of GoI community members, from the very deadliest to the greenest of noobs, but only when they are personable. 

The GoI community is what makes it a fun game to play, and keeps us coming back, and we like to meet new players and make new friends through playing in public lobbies. 

The matchmaking system  imposes an unknown criteria on our games, and removes the ability to gravitate toward players we enjoy playing the game with.  For some it people means finding really competent veterans, for others it means finding people they get along with.

In a game where communication and teamwork rule, I find it better to crew with players that use their microphone, are willing to cooperate, and speak a common language. 

Game balance is something that seems to works it's self out when you have a good community.  I have been in plenty of situations where I was welcomed by vets as a low level player, and a few when I was avoided (i.e. feared) by lower level players.  Most of the people who I enjoy playing with are willing to create game balance on their own if they are in a lobby with people who are willing to communicate and want to have fun.   

Impydog

[Milevan Faent]

I wonder how many people remember that half the reason we have matchmaking is because Lobbies of Icarus sucked, and the other half is because we need it to expand to the PS4 (which as far as I know is still in the works).

[KitKatKitty]

I wonder how many people remember that half the reason we have matchmaking is because Lobbies of Icarus sucked, and the other half is because we need it to expand to the PS4 (which as far as I know is still in the works).

Never thought lobbies of Icarus sucked....needed some improvements which I think they could have accomplished simply with the captain recommended load outs and the new leveling system like they have. But Lobbies of Icarus is one of the things that makes me come back to this game every single day. It is the only game that has such personal interactions that people actually make friends and I'm not meaning just gaming friends. People have created "in real life" friends with other players in this community. The lobbies is what has allowed for such interactions...the timed lobbies has stunted that and I have suggested making timed lobbies a select able preference like the swap lobbies is(was).

As far as expanding to the PS4...Is it still in the works? haven't heard anything about that for a while now. Also, I much rather have co-op or adventure mode come out before we expand to other platforms.

[Imagine]

I wonder how many people remember that half the reason we have matchmaking is because Lobbies of Icarus sucked, and the other half is because we need it to expand to the PS4 (which as far as I know is still in the works).

Never thought lobbies of Icarus sucked....needed some improvements which I think they could have accomplished simply with the captain recommended load outs and the new leveling system like they have. But Lobbies of Icarus is one of the things that makes me come back to this game every single day. It is the only game that has such personal interactions that people actually make friends and I'm not meaning just gaming friends. People have created "in real life" friends with other players in this community. The lobbies is what has allowed for such interactions...the timed lobbies has stunted that and I have suggested making timed lobbies a select able preference like the swap lobbies is(was).

As far as expanding to the PS4...Is it still in the works? haven't heard anything about that for a while now. Also, I much rather have co-op or adventure mode come out before we expand to other platforms.

AFAIK they have the PS4 devkits, but co-op was taking priority. This was back in like April though so who knows how it's changed.

Anyways, it was almost general consensus that the lobby wait times were the biggest problem in the game, and I can probably find about three trillion posts complaining about Lobbies of Icarus. Matchmaking (stop calling it MM btw, you should know that's a clan by now D:) was a method to fix that.

[KitKatKitty]

AFAIK they have the PS4 devkits, but co-op was taking priority. This was back in like April though so who knows how it's changed.

Anyways, it was almost general consensus that the lobby wait times were the biggest problem in the game, and I can probably find about three trillion posts complaining about Lobbies of Icarus. Matchmaking (stop calling it MM btw, you should know that's a clan by now D:) was a method to fix that.

This is why I suggest the timed lobbies as a select able preference. Not everyone complained about them and frankly I found the highest amounts of complaints coming from the newer players. If they were select able like the swap lobby function then players that wanted a fast game could simply select for timed lobbies and players that maybe having a good time with friends, talking strategy, playing clan vs clan, or any other random discussion that maybe taking more than the times lobby can simply have a lobbied not timed.

And yes since April...which was a while ago. It's more a curiosity than anything if this is still happening, since I'll still play on my PC.

And YES - MM is a clan and makes me think that every time I read that!

[Hoja Lateralus]

@Mezhu

Try providing actual feedback and suggestions instead of whining and asking for reverts.

I actually did, several times. Pointed out what (in my feeling) is wrong and if I had an idea - how to fix it.

I don't disagree with the points you make, I've written my opinions on the same issues quite a few times as well- I just despise the model post that you and many others are so eager to copy-paste every new patch: 'I will delete game'.

Firstly - generalizing is always wrong (there's a trick in this sentence)
Secondly - when asked about comparison between 1.3.7 and 1.3.8 I said, truthfuly, that the flaws that 1.3.7 was acceptable (for me) and still didn't prevent me from having joy from game where flaws of 1.3.8 were so big that (in my opinion) game is barely playable. Then I moved to what I described above.
I also wrote that because of current changes I may not be a part of community soon (which I can base on the amount of time I played before 1.3.8 and after 1.3.8 )

Well go fucking ahead. The fact you've played the game for however long you have doesn't entitle you to determining its' development goals and standards. You can share your opinion, as does everyone else, and it probably does have a higher impact than that of a relatively newer player. However, expecting the developers to instantly go by it simply because you said so isn't just plain arrogant, it's stupid.

Oh, this is just silly. Not going to comment this further.

@Imagine

Anyways, it was almost general consensus that the lobby wait times were the biggest problem in the game, and I can probably find about three trillion posts complaining about Lobbies of Icarus. Matchmaking (stop calling it MM btw, you should know that's a clan by now D:) was a method to fix that.

In some cases it failed even to do that, not speaking about issues I've been adressing this whole time and extinct game sizes and modes.
Although I fully agree on not calling matchmaking "MM".

[Squidslinger Gilder]

PS4 had to wait on Unity to update to do it. MM indeed would be perfect for console play. I saw the logic in the move to MM, but this isn't a viable MM for the community, nor is it viable for PS4.

[Dev Bubbles]

@Geo, no worries!  Sorry for the late reply.  Yeah your point on the level display is valid.  Let me just go over the reasoning again.  The cosmetic levels that's displayed is as you know an indicator of how much someone has played, but it's not necessarily a direct reflection of how well someone has played.  Take me for example.  I'm considered high level, but I'm not nearly at your skill level.  So the rating that we use for the match maker should account for how well someone plays, and there isn't necessarily a one to one correlation.  So, we found in certain cases, people look at the levels, and already decided that the match was out of balance, while in reality, the match was quite in balance (meaning the prematch ratings on either side was actually fairly close, and that the match results reflected that).  So while you're right in that the implementation of hiding lvs in lobby is only cursory, it's done to at least attempt to disassociate cosmetic levels and perceived balance indication/representation.  But of course we do realize the highly important value of showing off your levels that you worked so hard for, and therefore we are showing it everywhere else where it doesn't directly impact the perception of match balance. 

Yeah so that's really the rationale, and of course you're welcome to disagree.  So there's what I would say.  We'll call this an experiment.  If we can definitely show that this helps balance, we can keep.  Otherwise, we can roll back.  If it doesn't work as we expected, then there's no point taking away from level display in all its glory.  Hope this is a satisfactory response. 

Thanks so much!  Howard

[Sammy B. T.]

Yeah so that's really the rationale, and of course you're welcome to disagree.  So there's what I would say.  We'll call this an experiment.  If we can definitely show that this helps balance, we can keep.  Otherwise, we can roll back.  If it doesn't work as we expected, then there's no point taking away from level display in all its glory.  Hope this is a satisfactory response. 

I'd be a bit more trusting of this if there had been a resolution to the tab lock down, an unpopular result of an experiment for a mechanic no one was asking for. When you say roll back, what kind of time frame are you talking?

[Dev Bubbles]

@Sammy, I'm not sure what you're referring to here?  Sorry about that.  Here let me put it this way, if you have a better idea about how to disassociate the perception that leveling is the measure of balance, let me know.  I'm all ears.  Would love to hear a better solution. 

[Sammy B. T.]

https://gunsoficarus.com/community/forum/index.php/topic,3422.0.html

This was another problem caused by a fix no one was asking for.