Author Topic: Proposed SCS testing event.  (Read 8234 times)

Offline Skrimskraw

  • Member
  • Salutes: 160
    • [GwTh]
    • 21 
    • 45
    • 45 
    • View Profile
Proposed SCS testing event.
« on: October 02, 2014, 10:57:36 am »
Event starts on saturday 4th of october at: 3pm edt / 9pm cest / 7pm gmt


The Sunday Community Skirmish is slowly taking steps into becoming tightly organized and all that good stuff.
However we see the event as an event run by every part of the competitive community, the organizers, the referees, the streamers, the casters and the teams themselves who participate. We are trying to make it fair and fun for everyone participating and in doing so we often get proposed changes to rulesets etc.
There are some rules we aren’t willing to implement without testing them firsthand.
This Saturday has no major events running, so we quickly set up a closed event for 4 teams.
The event is running with standard SCS rules, however we are going to test the following rule changes:

A change in the time limit with 10 minutes per map and a total of 10 minutes of extra time spanning over the entire best of 3.

A ship pick order using the following rules:

In the lobby red team is granted 1 minute to first pick 1 ship, when they have picked a ship the captain who picked signal it by pressing ready on that ship.

Blue team is then granted 2 minutes to pick 2 ships, when they have picked a ship the captain on the left ship pressed ready.

Red team is then granted 1 minute to pick their last ship, when they have picked a ship the captain on the ship presses ready and the countdown timer starts.

If teams fail to pick before the timer ends, they can ask for additional time if there are problems in the lobby, if not they must use the ship they had when the timer ran out.

In map 2 blue team picks first, then red and then blue again.

In map 3 red team picks first, then blue and then red again.

It’s a simple pick order of: 1:2:1 – it will be explained in the lobby if there is still confusion about it. Or contact me prior to event to clarify.


This change requires a more professional approach from referees than we have had beforehand. However teams are expected to keep track of the time ingame themselves. Asking the referee for remaining time is still allowed, but do not expect the referee to give the information if not asked.
The changes we are testing are based on a severe dissatisfaction from teams, refs and casters saying that the event total time is too long, as well in lobby as in ingame.


When this event is over I will require feedback from every participant on the teams, the referee and the casters.

I will also need feedback from the viewers who are attending the event or rewatching it. I will read it and I will be unbiased while doing so. Neither velvet nor I are willing to implement changes of this magnitude if the teams, refs and casters thinks it’s a bad idea. However I only accept feedback given after the event. I hope you guys will take part in giving feedback, if not enjoy the show 
Feedback can be given in this thread or through forum pm.

Now the event is unfortunately closed, and instead of hoping that teams would signup in due time I decided to personally ask 4 clans to take part.

The bracket will be:
Game 1:
SPQR vs Rydr, SPQR have red spawn.
Map 1: battle on the dunes.
Map 2:  paritan rumble.
Map 3: Canyon ambush.

Game 2:
Gents vs Cake, Gents have red spawn.
Map 1: Canyon ambush.
Map 2: duel at dawn.
Map 3: Northern fjords

Finals:
Game 1 winner vs game 2 winner, game 1 winner has red spawn.
Map 1: Northern fjords.
Map 2: battle on the dunes.
Map 3: paritan rumble.

Streaming will be at: http://www.twitch.tv/awesomemorty with Sir Morty and Brick Hardcastle.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2014, 02:47:55 pm by Skrimskraw »

Offline Lydia Litvyak

  • Member
  • Salutes: 40
    • [Rydr]
    • 31 
    • 45
    • 45 
    • View Profile
    • Twitter
Re: Proposed SCS testing event.
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2014, 01:48:39 pm »
Out of curiosity, can captains switch after they pick ships? IE, Captain A of the red team picks a metamidion, then blue team picks, then Captain B of the red team swaps with Captain A, keeping a metamidion, and Captain A picks something else.

Offline Skrimskraw

  • Member
  • Salutes: 160
    • [GwTh]
    • 21 
    • 45
    • 45 
    • View Profile
Re: Proposed SCS testing event.
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2014, 02:10:22 pm »
Out of curiosity, can captains switch after they pick ships? IE, Captain A of the red team picks a metamidion, then blue team picks, then Captain B of the red team swaps with Captain A, keeping a metamidion, and Captain A picks something else.

yes if the builds stay the same.

Offline Sprayer

  • Member
  • Salutes: 14
    • [SPQR]
    • 45 
    • 45
    • 27 
    • View Profile
Re: Proposed SCS testing event.
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2014, 08:26:26 pm »
Does this rule affect crew composition and loadout?

Offline Skrimskraw

  • Member
  • Salutes: 160
    • [GwTh]
    • 21 
    • 45
    • 45 
    • View Profile
Re: Proposed SCS testing event.
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2014, 11:29:39 pm »
No it only affects ship loadout

Offline Skrimskraw

  • Member
  • Salutes: 160
    • [GwTh]
    • 21 
    • 45
    • 45 
    • View Profile
Re: Proposed SCS testing event.
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2014, 05:25:51 pm »
event is over, you can rewatch here:

http://www.twitch.tv/awesomemorty/b/574871192

if you have feedback please leave it, it is appreciated!

Offline GeoRmr

  • Member
  • Salutes: 178
    • [Rydr]
    • 45 
    • 1
    • 45 
    • View Profile
    • Storm Ryders
Re: Proposed SCS testing event.
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2014, 05:36:46 pm »
Hi, fun games!

I feel that the time limit for the matches didn't need to be so short, and that the ship picking system is effective but quite restrictive. Perhaps a set amount of time could be left in the lobby for the teams to counter pick as per the old system, and then if they are taking too long at the ref/casters discretion begin the one pick two pick one pick system to force start the game.

Offline Lydia Litvyak

  • Member
  • Salutes: 40
    • [Rydr]
    • 31 
    • 45
    • 45 
    • View Profile
    • Twitter
Re: Proposed SCS testing event.
« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2014, 05:46:44 pm »
I don't like the shorter match time. Notably our second match with SPQR today was not at all decided, but they did not feel they could turn it around within the time so they did the logical thing and surrendered. I would have liked to get to play that match to completion and I think it quite possibly would have turned out differently if we had. I definitely think these rules will lead to a lot more timeouts and surrenders.

That said, making sure events are over quickly is also important, so there are considerations there and I'm happy to go with whatever the organizers decide works best.

Offline Dutch Vanya

  • Member
  • Salutes: 107
    • [Clan]
    • 38 
    • 45
    • 45 
    • View Profile
Re: Proposed SCS testing event.
« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2014, 06:07:22 pm »
I don't like the shorter match time. Notably our second match with SPQR today was not at all decided, but they did not feel they could turn it around within the time so they did the logical thing and surrendered. I would have liked to get to play that match to completion and I think it quite possibly would have turned out differently if we had. I definitely think these rules will lead to a lot more timeouts and surrenders.

That said, making sure events are over quickly is also important, so there are considerations there and I'm happy to go with whatever the organizers decide works best.
People surrender in competitive? That's weak. One of the things i like best about this game is that you can always turn a bad match around.

Offline GeoRmr

  • Member
  • Salutes: 178
    • [Rydr]
    • 45 
    • 1
    • 45 
    • View Profile
    • Storm Ryders
Re: Proposed SCS testing event.
« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2014, 06:10:49 pm »
I don't like the shorter match time. Notably our second match with SPQR today was not at all decided, but they did not feel they could turn it around within the time so they did the logical thing and surrendered. I would have liked to get to play that match to completion and I think it quite possibly would have turned out differently if we had. I definitely think these rules will lead to a lot more timeouts and surrenders.

That said, making sure events are over quickly is also important, so there are considerations there and I'm happy to go with whatever the organizers decide works best.
People surrender in competitive? That's weak. One of the things i like best about this game is that you can always turn a bad match around.

It was done strategically: the game was running in overtime from a limited pool, there were 2 minutes left in the pool and they were 3 kills down. They surrendered because they thought it unlikely that they can get 3 kills to tie the match in 2 minutes, and so that if the next game also went into overtime there would be another 2 minutes left on the clock before it is force stopped or the game instantly stopping if it ran to 10 minutes with no overtime allowed.

Imho if the game had no time limit it, it could easily have gone to either team. But, in the situation i think it was a sound tactical decision to surrender and save the overtime for a game with a more favourable result.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2014, 06:14:06 pm by GeoRmr »

Offline Lydia Litvyak

  • Member
  • Salutes: 40
    • [Rydr]
    • 31 
    • 45
    • 45 
    • View Profile
    • Twitter
Re: Proposed SCS testing event.
« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2014, 06:21:29 pm »
^ Yes. Surrendering was the smartest thing SPQR could do in the situation, which I don't like, because in of itself the match was not decided. They were essentially forced to give up on a salvageable match because we were out of time.

Offline GeoRmr

  • Member
  • Salutes: 178
    • [Rydr]
    • 45 
    • 1
    • 45 
    • View Profile
    • Storm Ryders
Re: Proposed SCS testing event.
« Reply #11 on: October 04, 2014, 06:24:51 pm »
About the short timers - that match with only 2 minutes left in over time... was on Paritan rumble! Definitely needs a longer timer.


Offline Dutch Vanya

  • Member
  • Salutes: 107
    • [Clan]
    • 38 
    • 45
    • 45 
    • View Profile
Re: Proposed SCS testing event.
« Reply #12 on: October 04, 2014, 07:56:45 pm »
I personally just don't understand the mindset that winning at all costs is more exciting than potentially making a badass comeback and turning the match around. But yeah, these time rules don't seem like the best choice.

Offline Mezhu

  • Member
  • Salutes: 33
    • [Sgar]
    • 45 
    • 45
    • 41 
    • View Profile
Re: Proposed SCS testing event.
« Reply #13 on: October 04, 2014, 08:13:54 pm »
Surrender as a strategically valid option due to time constraints isn't something necesserily bad. I'll agree however that 10 mins of standard time + 10 bonus is probably too low. Current SCS rule of 15+10 seems a better middle ground between the previous rule and the tested one.

As for the pick order rule, I'm opposed to it. Pick order is a working system for games such as mobas- these games have a large enough pick pool and more entities to be picked (read 10 players, ~100 possible heroes), thus allowing for a big variety of potential picks and counterpicks. In such games, picking is a deep, complex game by itself in which the team with the most foresight into the game will be able to gain a potential advantage via properly understanding the enemy's intentions and countering them through picks. In GoI, however, we only have 4 ships to be picked out of a total available pool of 7. There are far less available combinations and viable strategies, and the balance has more of a rock/paper/scizzors nature. Enforcing a pick order rule could, imo, cause long-term effects to the quality of the event and its' games by encouraging safer picks even more while giving a the team with the first and last pick an unfair advantage. Lobby time is indeed a problem but I think we should look for other ways of decreasing it before implementing such a strong, meta-altering rule.

Offline Mattilald Anguisad

  • Community Ambassador
  • Salutes: 12
    • [GwTh]
    • 12 
    • 45
    • 30 
    • View Profile
Re: Proposed SCS testing event.
« Reply #14 on: October 04, 2014, 08:40:28 pm »
Well this whole event was set up just to test up rules variation. 10 minute match timer didn't work out.
Problem with current implementation is that lobbies will often devolve into endles cycle of counter picking until ref sternly tells them to stop wasting everybody elses's time. I think the prick-in-order idea has a potentiona - might need a bit more time to pick.