Author Topic: Novices in regular matches  (Read 10629 times)

Offline JinxedHatesYou

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Novices in regular matches
« on: September 19, 2014, 06:53:24 pm »
Greetings.
This is a long thread full of various point of views.


Some may indeed find those suggestions as restriction of their liberty, but novices are our lesser brothers with potential of becoming as good as you or even better than you. But currently, they are just little and cute powder monkeys, requiring the guidance and limitations.
Suggested limitations are merely protective and it is in my belief that it would be more comfortable for novice to adapt if he have a limited choice of tools to get used to the game first, and then gain access to wider choice.
One does not leave a toddler with a loaded gun and expects him to become a sharpshooter over a night.

I spent a great deal of time investigating the matter, I ask you to spend a little bit of your time to read it whole.

I am here to discuss the issue of novices in regular games.
Lets me start by describing what I see:

-I am living in GMT+4 and during my daytime when I am available to play the game there are only 2-4 matches (including running)
-In each match there is at least 3-4 novices.
-At least one of those novices is playing as a second gunner, second pilot, captain with mobula with all harpoons, gunner bringing the lochnagar for gatling gun, engineer bringing the mallet/chemspray/extinguisher.
-Almost each of those novices is not listening to you or refuses to listen to you, often just directly insulting you when you are trying to give them an advice.

I find it simply impossible to play the game during this perioud, even though there are some good players lingering around like me from time to time and looking for a good game. To actually find a decent match I am forced to wait till 2 AM and then there will be a variety of matches to choose from.

Novices like that is a reason why some good players I knew left the game, frustrated.
And now look right here:
http://steamcharts.com/app/209080#All

GoI keeps participating in various steam sales, humble bundles to gain a boost of players.
It lasts for a several days and then it drops close to original number of players or, sometimes, even lower.
Both novices and veterans find their experience frustrating during this time.

Now let me share the vision of novice here, which I gathered from speaking with some of them.
-Tutorial is ineadequate and provides only basic information to learn. Some novices I spoke with find this information insufficient to understand the basics of gameplay.
-Not a single novice could determine the difference between shattering damage and explosive damage, but some expressed their willingless to understand it. However, they are not able since this information is in Wilson's reports and is being locked until player completes achievements for one gun or another.
-Veterans are making their best to avoid novices. It is often when I see veteran player join the match, see a couple of novices on ship and immediatly leave. It is also not rare when people are rushing away from lobby when a pilot lvl 1 takes the captain slot.
-Veterans are often being rude towards novices and directly insult them, increasing the already existing tension between two groups of players. For vet's defence let me remind you that it is not rare when novice provokes or starts confrontation himself.

Some could say that matchmaking system will help the situation.
Their point of view:
1) Matchmaking system will automatically feel the lobbies with "standart" set of crew, which is one pilot, gunner and two engineers, therefore making it impossible for a second pilot to join.
2) Matchmaking system will take player's perfomance in account and try to match him with players of his skill, thus much less likely throwing his in a game full of novices.

Those arguments are easily countered by those simple statements:
1) Some novices keep bringing the lochnagar for gatling guns and some even change to second gunner after they join, it does not fix the problem.
2) As I mentioned before, there are only 2-4 games in my gaming time due to timezone. Matchmaking system will fail to find sufficient ammount of players to keep the skill levels more or less equal and mix novices with veterans yet again. This does not fix the problem.


Muse's point of view is that each player should be given the freedom to enjoy the game.
They see that forcing someone to bring some specific loadout or change class against their will is violation of this.
However, Muse members are not quite often seen in game other than dev matches and have lack of insigt to the problem.
When I attempted to play as a second pilot in a presence of Muse I was forced to change my class, because it was bothering him.
But in their theory it is not supposed to bother him. Somehow.


Muse, your current policy regarding the novices is inadequate and frustrating for both group of players.
I am simply not able to enjoy the game until it is 2 AM in a morning, when there is a large enough variety of games to pick from. This frustration is slowly reaching the boiling point over a year when I am seriously considering to abandon the game and advice my friends against purchasing it until something is done about issue in discussion.

I strongly suggest following to be implented:

-Novices keep the novice loadouts outside of the novice games. It will prevent them from letting their shipmates down by bringing the set of tools like mallet/chem/extinguisher and it will defend them from veteran's agression, since they have an optiomal loadout and it is not in their powers to change it.
-Improve the current tutorials and, if possible, add the separate tuorial mini-missions for each gun and ship.
-Unlock the Wilson's notes so novices would be able to read them and will have a chance to understand the game mechanics regarding the guns and damage types.
-Do not allow novices as captains outside of novice games. To captain a ship one needs to understand the mechanics of engineering, the mechanics of damage types, know the capabilities of your ship and capabilities of enemy ship. It is an information that novice player is simply did not learn yet and he is not able to pilot efficiently enough. I am suggesting, however, to keep their ability to captain the ships in novice games and practice matches.
-Do not allow novices to change their class after the matchmaking system added them to a match. As said before, the matchmaking system will try to collect a crew of one pilot, one gunner and two engineers. There is absolutely no need for novice to change his class if that happens. Even if captain wants 3 engineers on squid - it will be better that way, since novice will be not able to mess up by swapping his class and still will be useful on board of the ship.
-Recruit more CA from GMT+4 timezone. There is usually not a single CA during the daytime of GMT+4 and it is simply a brewing pot of profanity and madness when I am trying to play during my daytime, which sets a bad example for novices and degrades the community.

Offline Squidslinger Gilder

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Re: Novices in regular matches
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2014, 08:47:48 pm »
Theres a bunch of threads which state the same thing. Heck I even chimed in once about turning tutorial into more of a bootcamp with an instructor giving commands/etc.

Ultimately, this game will never have high retention after first week or two because it is not something players can just pick up and run around with. It takes people that are willing to invest 5-10 minutes to learn. Which is just too unreasonable when you have games like CoD where you can just pick up a controller and be right in the thick of it. Heck, majority of those players never even play the singleplayer campaign. I've even seen some that ask,"Theres a single player game?" Same with Halo and just about any multiplayer game on XBL.

There is just too much information to convey and everyone wants it all presented to them on the opening menu. Best example is explaining to people the leveling system. No one has half a brain to click on "progress" and figure out why that tab exists! "How do I level?" "Progress tab" "But how do I..." "Progress tab." "Where's..." "PROGRESS TAB!! USE YOUR EYES!!"

Honestly, I reach the point where when I see one of these types of players, I'd rather them go back to CoD than hang around here. These aren't quality players. As you note the brewing pot of profanity and madness, this is what these players bring. This is why the term "powder monkey" is a derogatory phrase around here. Adding more CAs won't do much. They'll help teach newbies that want to learn but the rest...they're little more than mallcops of GOIO. Temp bans and warnings just aren't a deterrent. Why you see stories hit gaming news of companies finally just outright permabanning accounts. Ultimately the only way to deal with some of these people which ruin the game for others.

Makes me glad Steam doesn't give refunds. At the very least Muse is getting money even if they only load up for Steam cards.

Offline Hoja Lateralus

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Re: Novices in regular matches
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2014, 10:34:20 pm »
I'm glad this thread excists and I completely support it.

Recently I had bought GOIO for my older brother and engaged him into play, then I could remind myself how tutorials look like. My brother (24-year old university student, not a stupid guy eh?) learned very little from tutorials and they are just terrible. Still my brother being I think 4/4/6 lvl player doesn't know almost anything about ammo types and damage types, he just grabs what I tell him.
Also it is shown very clear on CP / CK matches that tutorials are bad. I strongly believe this is one of the core problems - we need better tutorials in game and also Muse-approved tutorials online. In main menu there's a link to the forum - I'd really like to see the community-made tutorials being official.

Also the statistics shows that basically new players come, stay for some time and then go away, never looking back. This is some clue, and also blind circle:
People can't get good matches because there's not much people because people don't stay long in the game because they can't get good matches.
We need two things:
1. Getting some focus on low lvl players, raising their skills and keeping them in game
2. Making some haven for high-lvl players where they can be safe from powder monkeys. Hopefully this one will be at least partially fixed by matchmaking

I also suggested that clans take care of novice people - this would be a kind of win-win situation. I suggested that people could get a "[Clan] Reicrutee" status. Then they would be under a wing of some clan for some time. Then they could fly with more experienced people and learn.

Quote
-Improve the current tutorials and, if possible, add the separate tuorial mini-missions for each gun and ship.
-Unlock the Wilson's notes so novices would be able to read them and will have a chance to understand the game mechanics regarding the guns and damage types.
This, we need it BAD. Also the Wilson's notes thing has been e-mailed to Devs by me recently.

Quote
-Do not allow novices as captains outside of novice games. To captain a ship one needs to understand the mechanics of engineering, the mechanics of damage types, know the capabilities of your ship and capabilities of enemy ship. It is an information that novice player is simply did not learn yet and he is not able to pilot efficiently enough. I am suggesting, however, to keep their ability to captain the ships in novice games and practice matches.

Yeah, I recommend to make this official - being a captain is the hardest (or at least more knowledge-needing) role and should be taken after knowing at least basics of engineering and gunning. Also I had an idea of just 1/1/1 people being unable to get to regular matches untill they get lvl2 in every class. Sometimes people are just confused and join random lobby.






Offline JinxedHatesYou

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Re: Novices in regular matches
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2014, 12:15:34 am »
Regarding the clans taking care of newbies.
It is a common experience in some MMO games that clans establish "Boot camps" or "Academies", which are basicly a separate clan under the patronage of main clan.
A represantive of main clan and several other members brach away from main clan and establish the daughter clan specifically for the purpose of recruiting new members and training them. If they are qualified enough, those members will eventually transfer to main clan or relief some of the training officers of their duty, replacing him and allowing him to rejoin the main branch.

The good thing about those branched off clans that you are still able to commence full-scale recruiting without fearing to smear reputation of your main clan. It is not a big deal when someone from academy screws up one way or another.
But it also have several draw-backs.
Maintaining that clan will require people willing to work with new players (We do have CA for that, right?) and maintain leadership of main branch. It is also common that minor branches may suddenly rebel against their founders for independance.


I would like to also note that we are about to reach all-time low point of player peak since 2012.
We had a 4000 player peak just recently and it took just several months to get the situation even worse than it was 2 years ago.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2014, 12:18:52 am by JinxedHatesYou »

Offline Spud Nick

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Re: Novices in regular matches
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2014, 04:35:19 am »
Matchmaking will help. Newer players won't be yelled at or blocked for being new and high lvl players can have there crew setup the way they want. Win win.

Offline JinxedHatesYou

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Re: Novices in regular matches
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2014, 05:41:16 am »
You did not really read it, did you?

Offline Mean Machine

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Re: Novices in regular matches
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2014, 01:07:43 pm »

-At least one of those novices is playing as a second gunner, second pilot, captain with mobula with all harpoons, gunner bringing the lochnagar for gatling gun, engineer bringing the mallet/chemspray/extinguisher.


You mean like you did yesterday in our practice for no reason, even tho we asked you nicely to switch?

Offline JinxedHatesYou

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Re: Novices in regular matches
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2014, 03:06:29 pm »
Exactly.
And by the current policy you are supposed to be ok with that, but as soon as it touches the CA or dev it is suddenly all the way around.

Offline macmacnick

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Re: Novices in regular matches
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2014, 01:00:41 am »
The tactic I use to deal with this is asking politely, if they do not comply and are obviously there is the "insulting them, whilst retaining all  manners, in a deceptively polite tone" method. (I.E. 'Excuse me, [Sir or madam], I am afraid you are an asshole'.)